Author Topic: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum  (Read 1253 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« on: July 21, 2014, 05:05:52 PM »
I wanted to see what a scottish brewer thought of smoke from yeast.


His second sentence leaves the door open, but the word MAY isnt evidence. If I had the time id email every Scottish brewery. Maybe someone will take that challenge. Unless more than one commercial brewery declares that their yeast creates a noticeable smokiness, I think its time for it to take a hike from the guidelines. Meanwhile, its safe to say there is no smoke in TH beers.

Offline yso191

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2014, 06:06:06 PM »
Jim,

I don't know.  I wonder if the smokiness some report is simply a nearby flavor - in other words a similar flavor that can be interpreted as smoky.  When I was in Phoenix recently, I swear I tasted smoke in a Scottish ale.  But I don't trust my palate yet.  I'm getting there, but...

Anyway here is what I wrote: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=19407.msg249794#msg249794
Steve
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 06:27:03 PM »
I am in no way suggesting that what you or anyone tastes is wrong. I believe you tasted peat earth smoke.  My question is, was it a Scottish light, heavy, export, or strong scotch from a noteable brewery in Scotland? Second, are there enough good palates perceiving smoke in commercial examples from Scotland that it must be mentioned in the guidelines?

I wonder how many judges have actually grabbed a hand full of peat and tasted it too. Or are they parroting what someone else said. Kind of like me with black currant. I've never tasted them, but it sounds so Martha Stewarty.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 06:31:23 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline yso191

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2014, 07:00:43 PM »
Second, are there enough good palates perceiving smoke in commercial examples from Scotland that it must be mentioned in the guidelines?

Yeah probably not.

I also don't remember what (if it was even mentioned) specific Scottish ale it was.

I thought the question was whether it ever occurred or not.  It occurred in my mouth/perception, that is all I can speak to.

BTW, are you going to be available tomorrow?  I'm thinking of heading to the monastery, and can bring that grain mill to you.
Steve
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2014, 07:09:25 PM »
I wonder how many judges have actually grabbed a hand full of peat and tasted it too. Or are they parroting what someone else said. Kind of like me with black currant. I've never tasted them, but it sounds so Martha Stewarty.

<raises hand>
Umm, I have. I bought a pound when I was a newbie for a recipe I thought I was going to brew. Once it arrived, I knew it wasn't going in the beer. I still have it for a 'training aid'. It still reeks nearly 3 years later, through two Ziplocs, so I have to keep it in 2 Ziplocs and a plastic bin.

I'm also thinking about growing some currants next year to see what's what. If they grow, I'll bring them in for a club meeting for education.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2014, 07:16:33 PM »
On the other hand, I've never tasted peat malt, but I have tasted peat. :o
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2014, 07:26:49 PM »
I'll agree with anyone who opines that peat-smoked malt has no useful place in brewing.  Yucky yuck yuck.

Currants and gooseberries are very easy to grow.  They'll grow in the shade just as well as in full sun.

I have tasted red currants.  They are kind of like a cross between tiny tomatoes and a berry of some sort.  The only way I could eat them was in a coffee cake -- then they were good.  But to just eat a handful of them... yuck.

I have some black currant jam in the fridge.  It's not too exciting.  Sort of a cross between blueberries, blackberries, and raisins.  I'd much rather just eat blueberries, blackberries, or raisins.

Now gooseberries..... those are great.  I am growing a sweet variety right now called Hinnomaki Red, and will have my first harvest this year.  From what I've tasted from others in the past, they have the shape and size of grapes, but taste NOTHING like grapes at all.  They have a sort of mushy sweet inside that is very tasty and uniquely flavored, and then the skin is extremely sour.  Inevitably you end up chomping on them saying ooh this is good, very sweet, but then in the finish you get the sour skin.  Makes for an exciting taste every time.  Sort of like sour candy where it's sweet inside but then the lactic acid hits and you pucker up... and then do it all over again with another bite.  The Brits all make jam of them, but personally, I'll eat all mine fresh, they're much more exciting eaten that way IMHO.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2014, 08:36:44 PM »
I wonder how many judges have actually grabbed a hand full of peat and tasted it too. Or are they parroting what someone else said. Kind of like me with black currant. I've never tasted them, but it sounds so Martha Stewarty.

<raises hand>
Umm, I have. I bought a pound when I was a newbie for a recipe I thought I was going to brew. Once it arrived, I knew it wasn't going in the beer. I still have it for a 'training aid'. It still reeks nearly 3 years later, through two Ziplocs, so I have to keep it in 2 Ziplocs and a plastic bin.

I'm also thinking about growing some currants next year to see what's what. If they grow, I'll bring them in for a club meeting for education.

You bought a pound of peat or peat smoked malt? If they say peat/earth, I think they mean the actual peat moss from a bog. Like sphagnum moss for the garden. I wonder how many folks have tasted that.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2014, 08:38:00 PM »
Second, are there enough good palates perceiving smoke in commercial examples from Scotland that it must be mentioned in the guidelines?

Yeah probably not.

I also don't remember what (if it was even mentioned) specific Scottish ale it was.

I thought the question was whether it ever occurred or not.  It occurred in my mouth/perception, that is all I can speak to.

BTW, are you going to be available tomorrow?  I'm thinking of heading to the monastery, and can bring that grain mill to you.

I'm working tomorrow so really hard to commit to it. I guess we could try. What time?

Offline AmandaK

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2014, 08:38:13 PM »
Peat smoked malt. It smells like cheap scotch - doesn't have that damp quality.
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Offline chumley

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2014, 09:00:08 PM »
All these people slamming the use of peat-smoked malt in brewing beer.....yet there are endless threads about using cucumbers, yadayada..... :o 

Try throwing in 3 ounces in the mash of your next 5 gallons of porter sometime.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2014, 09:21:08 PM »
Im not slaming it at all. Ive never used it or tasted it. My onliest point is that there is debate on the bjcp guideline changes and the brewer from the number one commercial example for wee heavy says he has no smoke, even from yeast phenols, in his beer. I hear anecdotal evidence about a couple home brewed or american brewed versions, and I'm questioning if that is enough to require smokiness being mentioned in the guidelines.


Offline dmtaylor

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2014, 10:26:36 PM »
All these people slamming the use of peat-smoked malt in brewing beer.....yet there are endless threads about using cucumbers, yadayada..... :o 

Try throwing in 3 ounces in the mash of your next 5 gallons of porter sometime.

I've done that before.  No thanks.  Never again.
Dave

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2014, 10:42:24 PM »
All these people slamming the use of peat-smoked malt in brewing beer.....yet there are endless threads about using cucumbers, yadayada..... :o 

Try throwing in 3 ounces in the mash of your next 5 gallons of porter sometime.

I've done that before.  No thanks.  Never again.

Same here. I used ~ .25 lb in a Scottish 80/ back in the day because there were so many recipes using it, I thought it was part of an authentic Scottish. I hated it from the first pint and ended up giving it away to friends to get drunk on. For years I heard "It wasn't THAT bad". Was to me.
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Offline chumley

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Re: A share for those who aren't following the BJCP forum
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2014, 02:49:30 AM »
Well,  I guess some are more sensitive to it than others.  I kind of like the stuff in small doses. And it's better than adding vegetables to your beer.