[reverseapachemaster]

I have to admit, the beginning of the article made me a little weary of Koch.

If true and I owned the establishment I would have promptly kicked the guy out the second he tried to go in the walk in. Obviously the owner doesn't worry about a business relationship with BBC so no harm at offending Koch like that.

[ranchovillabrew]

from the Full Pint

http://thefullpint.com/dans-blog/dans-super-well-thought-oh-controversial-response-jim-koch-article/

[pete b]

Not defending his behavior but am saying I'm one of those with a place in my heart for SA. The first one I had was pilfered from my friend's step father at a party in the summer of '85. When I worked at a restaurant in the late 80s early 90's there were two prices for bottled beers at most restaurants and it looked like this on the menu:Domestic: $1.25 Bud, Michelob, Miller lite Imported: $1.75 Heineken, Becks, Sam Adams. They knew so little about beer back then that owners called SA imported because all they knew was it cost them as much. So it definitely was my gateway to good beer. Before there was craft beer widely available I moved on to Bass and Guiness.
I have no problem with Koch making only beers he likes. When was the last time you read an article about a brewer who DIDN'T say they brew what they like? In fact I think since he's not into it I don't think he should make West Coast IPAs. The market is saturated and to tell you the truth I think people are getting sick of over the top hoppy beers, at least as an everyday beer. I think the place for him to go is English and continental well balanced beers. I think he would do a good job with those types. Forget Belgians, some pretty big players are already there but British IPas, ESB's, Scottish Ales and continental lagers and pilsners I believe will be the next craft beer trend. If he went there, made a few really good examples and then used his marketing skills and $ he could gain back customers and respect. BTW I do like some of their smaller releases. they make a good braggot, which you don't see many commercial examples of.

[theDarkSide]

from the Full Pint

http://thefullpint.com/dans-blog/dans-super-well-thought-oh-controversial-response-jim-koch-article/

He forgot the word "pissah"...friggin' retahd!

[denny]

Never met him, but would happily shake his hand and praise his contributions to craft beer and homebrewing.

As would I, very gladly.  But I just feel like instead of whining, he should be looking at why people feel SA makes mediocre beers and addressing that.

[redbeerman]

His whole problem, though, seems to be that he's stuck in the past.  If he's as good a businessman as his degrees would lead you to believe, he would have seen the market shift and moved with it.  But he seems to only want to do what he's always done.

This happens in many businesses.  The founders vision does not account for future market changes.  The business gets too big to maneuver through quickly changing markets.  I've seen this personally in the electronics industry.  Another example is the decreasing use of Itunes as a media player.  Is Apple quick/smart enough to change with the market direction?

[yso191]

You know what's funny?  I'll almost never buy a Dogfish Head beer because of the opposite reason: I think they try way too hard to be on the cutting edge with new innovative 'beers.'  Now obviously this is just my personal perspective but you just don't have to release to all of America every hair-brained idea for weird adjuncts.  I'm all for experimenting, but wow.  What's next, an authentic Middle Eastern beer brewed with camel spit?

Sam Adams makes excellent beer - but nothing that I am ever hankering for.  But a LOT of people do enjoy their beers.  I think SA will continue to be a gateway beer for people moving away from bland lagers to craft beer. 

So yeah, something in the middle is what I like, like what Deschutes does, or Ninkasi, or Stone, or Sierra Nevada, or...

[tommymorris]

Koch has responded to the market in one way. He sells twisted tea and angry orchard ciders.  According to the article he doesn't like them but sells them anyway. He's making plenty of money and selling to his market. He just had a bad day in the beer bar.

[MDixon]

Sam Adams really doesn't make mediocre beers, they pretty much make boring beers. Mediocre implies not very good, they are clean and good, they are just boring as sin. Now they do fill the niche for being almost everywhere so they have saved my life on more than one occasion.

Sam Adams started in 1985, but I don't remember seeing one out an about until at least 1994 and that was Cranberry Lambic at a BBQ place.

At one time when SA was a buck a sixer less than every other craft beer on the shelf I would buy it. Now I rarely do because of all the competition. Occasionally they'll have something interesting on draft and I'll give it a whirl, but most of the time it just scratches the itch when nothing more interesting is available.

FWIW, if he came into my place and complained about the draft list and then barged into the cooler he'd be asked to leave my business. He sounded like a douche in the article.

[majorvices]

I just don't think of SA being a competitor to local craft beer. I'm pretty sure the distributors don't either. I think they are competing against "second tier" beers such as Shock Top, Stella, German imports such as Bittburger, Corona .... etc., etc.

I think their beers are solid right down the middle. Their Oktoberfest is usually fresher and better than anything that comes over here from Germany. Their Rebel IPA is actually a decent IPA that is probably better than a lot of "local" IPAs.

But they are not in the same league as Stone, Languanitas, Boulevard, Founders, or the like. Those beers are good enough that they can take down local taps. But there's no way Boston Lager or Rebel IPA is going to come in and knock down a favorite local tap. Just not gonna happen.

[klickitat jim]

Right down the middle... great way to put it. Fairways and greens, layup, make all of your short putts. Good way to make a career of it, but not the way to win tournaments or make the cover of magazines. That comes from not being afraid to grip it n rip it once in a while.

[erockrph]

Don't get me wrong, I still drink a lot of Sam Adams. They brew some good beer, although I agree that their product line seems a bit muddy. But it sounds like Jim Koch is turning into what he fought so hard not to be when he got this whole thing started. He has become a dinosaur. If he doesn't evolve, he's got no right to complain when this whole craft beer movement passes him by. At least Pete Coors isn't dumb enough to go into a craft beer bar and have a tantrum because there's no Banquet beer on tap.

[phunhog]

Personally I think he has a point....craft beer drinkers can be a bunch of pompous blow hards.  It's not enough to make a solid beer anymore. Sam Adams is mentioned multiple times in the BJCP style guidelines for a variety of beer styles.  If they made crappy beer I would hope the BJCP wouldn't include them as commercial examples.  That said I wouldn't go into a "craft beer bar" and expect to find Sam Adams just like I wouldn't go into some underground, indie record shop and find the latest U2 release.  Those types of businesses thrive on having the hard to find and unusual products....not something you can pick up just about anywhere.  But that alone is NOT a measure of quality.

[udubdawg]

once I got around Koch's apparent actions in the bar and eye-rolling at words like "abandoned" I agreed with a good portion of it.

but in the end, sorry Jim:  no Black Lager, no care!   
that stuff accounted for at least half of what I've ever drank from BBC.  We need more schwarzbiers, not less.

[mainebrewer]

from the Full Pint

http://thefullpint.com/dans-blog/dans-super-well-thought-oh-controversial-response-jim-koch-article/

He forgot the word "pissah"...friggin' retahd!

As a fellow northern New Englander (Palermo, Me), we are probably the only two people in this thread that get your reference!