Author Topic: La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.  (Read 1249 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.
« on: June 30, 2015, 01:37:09 AM »
This was a wow beer for me almost two years ago. Excellent stuff, will try some more this fall when in NM.  ;)

He under pitches to get a faste fermentation. That seems counter intuitive, but if you read the article he uses the Chico yeast. It popped into my head that the Basic Brewing Radio experiment had faster krausen for dry sprinkled US-05 vs rehydrated (killed half the yeast but it started quicker). Mark V. - could his have something to do with the yeast genetics that you have been talking about for the Chico yeast (diploid)? Very curious here.

Nice IPA recipe. Might make something similar, using Galaxy in place of the South African hop.
Article,
http://beerandbrewing.com/VXtKGSgAABcBR8O6/article/breakout-brewer-la-cumbre-brewing
recipe,
http://beerandbrewing.com/VUqTKygAAHYoUYHe/article/la-cumbre-brewings-elevated-ipa-recipe


Jeff Rankert
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2015, 12:07:06 PM »
Thanks for posting, Jeff!  I brewed their Project Dank IPA recipe from Zymurgy last year and loved it, so I definitely want to brew this one. I'll be curious to see what Mark says. Good info in the article as well.
Jon H.

Offline blatz

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Re: La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 05:33:18 PM »
awesome - looks good to me.
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Re: La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2015, 01:14:13 AM »
I think that the value quoted here is off by three orders of magnitude.

Quote
"We pitch 400 million cells per milliliter per degree Plato, or 40 percent of the recommended amount to pitch,” he explains. “We achieve a faster, healthier fermentation by pitching a little less yeast.”

I believe that the brewer meant to say 400,000 cells per milliliter per degree Plato.  If the brewer is pitching slurry, not lab grown yeast, then it absolutely makes sense.  Pitching 400,000 cells per milliliter instead of 1,000,000 cells per milliliter results in at least one additional replication event, which, in turn, results in a younger culture at the end of fermentation.  The problem with repitching is that the average age of the cells in the culture increases with each new pitch.  In essence, it's better to underpitch than it is to overpitch from a yeast health point of view. 


With that said, let's work the math.  The beer has an ABV of 7.2.  Let's assume that he is achieving an AA of around 78%, which is typical with Bry 96.  That value places the O.G. at 1.070, or 17 Plato.

17 * 400,000 = 6.8 million cells per milliliter

6.8 x 1000 = 6.8 billion cells per liter

If the maximum cell density for a liter is 200 billion cells, then the number of replication events necessary to reach maximum cell density is log(200/6.8 ) / log(2) = 4.9.   On  the other hand, pitching 1,000,000 cells per milliliter results in 17 x 1,000,000 = 17 million cells per milliliter.  The number of replication events necessary to reach maximum cell density is log(200/ 17) / log(2) = 3.6.  Herein, lies the beauty of exponential growth.  It literally makes yeast cultures like nuclear weapons in that close is more than good enough.  Other other hand, each fermentation adds up to 600,000 x 17 x 1,000 = 10.2 billion new cells per liter that would not have been created if the batch had been pitched at a rate 1,000,000 cells per degree Plato per milliliter, resulting in culture with a younger average cell age.  If we serially repitch, this practice will make a huge difference in the health/vigor of the culture over time.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 02:12:44 AM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2015, 01:35:30 AM »
That makes it very clear, thanks for reading and the reply.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2015, 01:51:08 AM »
This is a case where, not being a serial repitcher, the under pitching advice wouldn't be as applicable to me. Thanks Mark!
Jon H.

Offline a10t2

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Re: La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2015, 02:36:51 AM »
I believe that the brewer meant to say 400,000 cells per milliliter per degree Plato.

My money would be on Jeff being misquoted. He's a fellow pedant.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2015, 05:20:37 AM »
I believe that the brewer meant to say 400,000 cells per milliliter per degree Plato.

My money would be on Jeff being misquoted. He's a fellow pedant.
Jeff Erway, that is. He makes some nice beers in ABQ.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2015, 05:36:13 AM »
Jeff Erway, that is. He makes some nice beers in ABQ.

Indeed… I almost typed Jefe.

Although, Jeff, if you want to join Club Pedant, we'd be honored to have you. The first meeting is once we finish discussing whether meetings are biannual or biennial. ;)
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2015, 07:06:23 AM »
Semiannual.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: La Cumbra Elevated IPA and Pitch Rate.
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2015, 11:53:17 AM »
Jeff Erway, that is. He makes some nice beers in ABQ.

Indeed… I almost typed Jefe.

Although, Jeff, if you want to join Club Pedant, we'd be honored to have you. The first meeting is once we finish discussing whether meetings are biannual or biennial. ;)

Sign me up.
Jeff Rankert
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!