[AmandaK]

So all the LHBS in KC are out of WLP570 which means that we can't brew the BGSA that we wanted to brew this Sunday. So we are making the best of it by gathering the things we need for a 10g split batch of American IPA and Belgian IPA. I'd like some sanity checking/past experiences from you all if you'd be so kind.

Thoughts on recipe:

• Want to use HopShot to get the initial IBUs
• Want to use Mosaic for sure. Maybe with Centennial & Citra? We have a ton of nice hops in the freezer outside of that, but those are the ones I think may go well together.
• Will be using WY3522 for the Belgian half, probably WY1056 or something on the American half
• Won't be dry hopping, but will be whirlpooling
• OG: 1.056-1.060?; IBUs around 65?
• Maybe use a blend of Rahr 2-row and TF Maris Otter? Bertus Brewery seems to do that a lot, maybe I should try it.

First stab at recipe:

50% Rahr 2-row
50% Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter
HopShot @ 60 for 50 IBUs
Crapton of hops at 15'
Crapton of hops at 5'
Metric crapton of hops at FO, whirlpool for 20'
Split into two carboys, half gets WY3522, half gets WY1056 or something

I'd like to serve this at a party on 9/26, so I'm avoiding the dryhopping. Plus, I really like clear beer, so DH is out in this timeframe.

So - thoughts/comments/concerns?

[dmtaylor]

Sounds like a pretty good plan.  Things I'd consider:

1) Eliminate the 15-minute addition.  The later additions will give you all the flavor and aroma you need.  Save a few bucks and get the same results.

2) Go heavy handed on the Centennial, and lighter handed on Mosaic and Citra.  The latter two are extremely aggressive hops compared to Cent.

That's about it.  I assume you'll jack up your sulfates / gypsum to make the bitterness pop more?

[brewday]

I think Mosaic and Citra are magical together, and shine thru without dry hopping IME.  At 1:1 it can still be a bit Citra focused, so maybe something along the lines of 1.5:1 Mosaic to Citra.  I like to cut in a bit of Columbus or similar to keep the fruitiness in check.  And I do like the 2-row/MO combo.  Looks tasty!

[HoosierBrew]

I think Mosaic and Citra are magical together, and shine thru without dry hopping IME.  At 1:1 it can still be a bit Citra focused, so maybe something along the lines of 1.5:1 Mosaic to Citra.  I like to cut in a bit of Columbus or similar to keep the fruitiness in check.  And I do like the 2-row/MO combo.  Looks tasty!

+1

[AmandaK]

Based on you guys confirming what I thought, I'll stick with the 2row/MO combo. Maybe I'll add in a bit of sugar like the Bertus guy. I am an avid hater of even vaguely sweet IPAs, so I may go with that. Hopefully I'll hit 1.010.

I really like the suggestions of Columbus/heavy handing the Centennial. Perhaps I'll try for 2:1.5:1 with Columbus/Centennial:Mosaic:Citra on the late additions. We did a Pilsner that was DH'd with Mosaic and Moteuka earlier this year that was a bit too fruity - perhaps Columbus/Centennial will help that out.

[hopfenundmalz]

Centennial will bring floral notes to the party. I always describe fresh Two Hearted as being floral.

Stan Hieronymus said that the thing that Centennial has going for it is cis-Rose Oxide, which is -
"Odor Description:   A clean floral, green rosy, fresh, geranium odor."

It turns out the growers don't like it so much due to low yeild and being finicky to grow.

Reference for the quote
http://www.bedoukian.com/products/product.asp?id=479

[dmtaylor]

Columbus is another great hop that is nearly as aggressive as Mosaic and Citra.  Use a ton of Centennial compared to all those others if you want it to show up at all, otherwise it will be hiding.  Actually it might be hiding no matter how much you use compared to the others.

[denny]

For a Belgian IPA, I'd lose the MO...for that matter, I don't even care for it in an AIPA!  I light a lighter malt presence that doesn't get in the way.  especially for a Belgo/AM IPA.

[denny]

Centennial will bring floral notes to the party. I always describe fresh Two Hearted as being floral.

Stan Hieronymus said that the thing that Centennial has going for it is cis-Rose Oxide, which is -
"Odor Description:   A clean floral, green rosy, fresh, geranium odor."

It turns out the growers don't like it so much due to low yeild and being finicky to grow.

Reference for the quote
http://www.bedoukian.com/products/product.asp?id=479

Remember the grower's panel at Hop and Brew school last week?  When asked what variety they least liked, they said they'd be happy to never see Centennial again.

[dilluh98]

I don't typically dry hop much but when I do brew an IPA, I like the 20 minute whirlpool addition once the wort is cooled to ~180F rather than right at flameout. I feel like I get the most bang for my buck in terms of aroma and flavor using that method.

[hopfenundmalz]

Centennial will bring floral notes to the party. I always describe fresh Two Hearted as being floral.

Stan Hieronymus said that the thing that Centennial has going for it is cis-Rose Oxide, which is -
"Odor Description:   A clean floral, green rosy, fresh, geranium odor."

It turns out the growers don't like it so much due to low yeild and being finicky to grow.

Reference for the quote
http://www.bedoukian.com/products/product.asp?id=479

Remember the grower's panel at Hop and Brew school last week?  When asked what variety they least liked, they said they'd be happy to never see Centennial again.

Exactly, she called it finicky. I got the impression Perrault does not grow it, as Centennial is the first to be harvested, and Perrault's first hop to harvest was Simcoe.

[AmandaK]

For a Belgian IPA, I'd lose the MO...for that matter, I don't even care for it in an AIPA!  I light a lighter malt presence that doesn't get in the way.  especially for a Belgo/AM IPA.

This is the one time I'm going to have to disagree with you, Denny!    I like when IPAs have a biscuity/grainy/low bready quality to them. Sure, the West Coast version of the style is awesome, but I'm aiming for biscuit/grainy/background bready with that dry as s**t finish.

Hopefully Centennial doesn't go away! I doubt it will, but still. That would be sad.

[dmtaylor]

I hear the Bell's Two Hearted Ale is fairly popular..... 

[HoosierBrew]

Amanda, FWIW I've experimented for a while with using 2 row/MO blends. Currently I'm using 82/18  2 row: MO for my APAs, which gives a great subtle biscuity character IMO. This is in the ballpark of Vinnie C's 'Hop2It APA format IIRC. I still prefer AIPAs with just 2 row and C40. Regardless, I think these beers sound great !  And 3522 makes a great Belgo IPA (among others).

[AmandaK]

Jon, I'll keep that in mind when I try this beer we make. I got home and checked my notes (instead of just sitting at work and dreaming). As it turns out, one of my favorite IPA recipes - a Pliny homage - was 2-row and C40 but I think I'm looking for something, I don't know, different.

Here's an actual go at it, split evenly between WLP001 (new pure pitch apparently) and WY3522. Also - I love WY3522 in Belgian hoppy beers. I got the recommendation from Stan H a couple of years ago and haven't turned back.

11 gallon batch:

11lb Rahr 2-row
11lb TF Maris Otter
1.5lb Table Sugar
---------
60' - HopShot to 50 IBUs
10' - 1oz Centennial, 1oz Columbus, 1.5oz Mosaic, 1oz Citra
FO - 2oz Centennial, 2oz Columbus, 3oz Mosaic, 1oz Citra
---------
Target mash pH: 5.4
65ppm Ca, 13ppm Na, 120ppm SO4; 38ppm Cl
Mash @ 149F for 90'
---------
WLP001
WY3522
---------
OG: 1.060
FG: 1.010
IBU: 128 (?? idk, Beersmith calc'd)
SRM: 4
ABV: 6.5%

Is this enough hops? It doesn't seem like it, but the 128 calc'd IBUs makes me think it might be. (Side note: I'm sick and not thinking clearly... so I'm bouncing ideas off Myles and you all. Thaaaaaank you guys!) Anyway, we have a metric crap ton of these hops but 12oz of hops plus a HopShot seems logical at this point.