Author Topic: Hose on first?  (Read 2597 times)

Offline kgs

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Hose on first?
« on: January 16, 2016, 02:59:36 AM »
(Sorry, it's been a long week.) I'm looking at the following:

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/25-GALLON-PARAMOUNT-KEGGING-SYSTEM-P4051.aspx

Ignoring the gas side of this keg for now, I am wondering about the faucet. In reading about kegging, I keep hearing about cutting hose lines this length or that length (another part of the kegging mystique). I am not saying I am about to purchase this setup, I just find it interesting. So, would this setup work in practice?

(On the gas side, Williams appears to think there is a market for small-batch brewers who don't want to schlep around town trying to refill huge canisters. I have to say that freedom from hunting down CO2 was the first thing that occurred to me.)
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2016, 05:16:38 AM »
I think the lack of line would cause pours at normal serving pressures (10-12 psi) to be very foamy.

There is an adapter that fits the Perlick Flow control faucet to achieve the same hose less effect but with flow control to regulate pressure.

http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3343

I found this Reddit from someone using the Perlick adapter.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/3b8di2/perlick_flow_control_quick_disconnect_faucet/

Offline kgs

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2016, 02:39:19 PM »
I think the lack of line would cause pours at normal serving pressures (10-12 psi) to be very foamy.

There is an adapter that fits the Perlick Flow control faucet to achieve the same hose less effect but with flow control to regulate pressure.

http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3343

I found this Reddit from someone using the Perlick adapter.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/3b8di2/perlick_flow_control_quick_disconnect_faucet/

I was thinking about the flow issue and looked again at the faucet in the setup. It's [edit] NOT this one:

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/PERLICK-FORWARD-SEAL-FLOW-CONTROL-FAUCET-P2996.aspx

It's this one:

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/INTERTAP-STAINLESS-KEG-FAUCET-P4045.aspx

So [edit] Perlick and Intertap took the idea and created a contained unit. I saw positive reviews on the Morebeer site for this [type of] faucet, most citing the ability to avoid hoses and/or dial in pressure at the faucet. So I Googled up this article from the Beersmith website on keg line length balancing:

http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/07/14/keg-line-length-balancing-the-science-of-draft-beer/

Whether I go with a hoseless setup or not, the Beersmith article was very edifying.

On the gas end of things, having a mini-regulator with cartridges would be great for taking beer places (as people have noted in earlier posts) but it's also interesting that Williams--based in a very large urban area, though they only sell online--has identified a pain point for several parts of the homebrewing demographic (city dwellers, apartment dwellers, occasional brewers, etc.).
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 04:50:31 PM by kgs »
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2016, 03:15:41 PM »
You are incorrect. It uses the Intertap  faucet from Keg King. They do make a flow control version, but it is not imported into the US yet, at least from what I can tell. Williams appears to be the only US retailer of these faucets, which honestly have my interest.

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2016, 03:18:17 PM »
My first thought was the expense of the CO2 cylinders for day to day use.  The cost of those add up quickly.  It's an interesting idea for taking beer to parties or a cabin but I don't believe it is replacement for a keg fridge at home.

Paul
Where the heck are we going?  And what's with this hand basket?

Offline kgs

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2016, 04:49:24 PM »
You are incorrect. It uses the Intertap  faucet from Keg King. They do make a flow control version, but it is not imported into the US yet, at least from what I can tell. Williams appears to be the only US retailer of these faucets, which honestly have my interest.

I acknowledge the error. They appear to carry the Intertap and Perlick faucets, and I looked up the wrong one. They're sold out of the Intertap right now, which they had on sale. http://www.williamsbrewing.com/INTERTAP-STAINLESS-KEG-FAUCET-P4045.aspx
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2016, 04:56:50 PM »

You are incorrect. It uses the Intertap  faucet from Keg King. They do make a flow control version, but it is not imported into the US yet, at least from what I can tell. Williams appears to be the only US retailer of these faucets, which honestly have my interest.

I acknowledge the error. They appear to carry the Intertap and Perlick faucets, and I looked up the wrong one. They're sold out of the Intertap right now, which they had on sale. http://www.williamsbrewing.com/INTERTAP-STAINLESS-KEG-FAUCET-P4045.aspx
Easy mistake. They look very similar. The Intertap faucets look interesting. I would dig an Intertap with flow control connected to the adapter they have for direct connection to a keg.

Offline kgs

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2016, 05:00:52 PM »
My first thought was the expense of the CO2 cylinders for day to day use.  The cost of those add up quickly.  It's an interesting idea for taking beer to parties or a cabin but I don't believe it is replacement for a keg fridge at home.

Paul

Right, in the balance of convenience and cost, traditional cylinders win out for most homebrewers who are brewing regularly and kegging. It's the untapped demographics -- ouch, that was an unintended pun -- the Williams setup is angling for. For occasional small-batch brewers disinterested in hunting down CO2 or without ready access to it, the gas-side part of this setup could be very appealing.
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Offline narcout

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2016, 05:09:15 PM »
I don't understand how those setups can produce a good pour, and finding a place to fill or swap CO2 tanks is pretty easy in most places.

Check to see if there is an Airgas branch in your area: https://www.airgas.com/
It's too close to home
And it's too near the bone

Offline tommymorris

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2016, 05:09:46 PM »

My first thought was the expense of the CO2 cylinders for day to day use.  The cost of those add up quickly.  It's an interesting idea for taking beer to parties or a cabin but I don't believe it is replacement for a keg fridge at home.

Paul

Right, in the balance of convenience and cost, traditional cylinders win out for most homebrewers who are brewing regularly and kegging. It's the untapped demographics -- ouch, that was an unintended pun -- the Williams setup is angling for. For occasional small-batch brewers disinterested in hunting down CO2 or without ready access to it, the gas-side part of this setup could be very appealing.
Good point. This might be nice for 1 gallon brewer. The whole setup may fit in their existing fridge and impress their friends.

Offline tonyccopeland

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2016, 06:01:40 PM »
I own one of the Williams mini regulators and while it is handy on the go it is not a replacement for a tank at home.  The 45gram co2 cartridges don't last too long...

-Tony

-Tony

Offline kgs

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2016, 06:15:13 PM »
I don't understand how those setups can produce a good pour, and finding a place to fill or swap CO2 tanks is pretty easy in most places.

Check to see if there is an Airgas branch in your area: https://www.airgas.com/

Airgas is in my area but the local homebrewers advise it is very expensive compared to other local options. That doesn't mean I won't go the refill route, just an observation. I could certainly try the mini-regulator idea and if it seemed impractical I'd still have a device I can use for portability. (Thanks to Tony's input since I started this post about 45g cartridges not lasting long.)

For the faucet, the proof would be in the pour, methinks. I am weak in science, but if I read the Brewsmith article about balancing lines correctly, the length of the beer line is used to regulate tap pressure, with length of the line increasing friction and therefore modulating the difference between the beer coming out of the keg and the beer coming out of the tap.

My guess is that the practice of using the length of beer line to manage tap pressure is an outcome of using hose in the first place as a way to deliver the beer, not vice versa. I'm willing to believe devices other than hoses could regulate tap pressure.
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Offline narcout

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2016, 09:42:01 PM »
Airgas is in my area but the local homebrewers advise it is very expensive compared to other local options.

It's $20 here to swap a 10 lb. tank, and it lasts me about 10 months.

I'm willing to believe devices other than hoses could regulate tap pressure.

You could get a flow control faucet, but I didn't see that the Intertap faucet you linked to above had that feature.

It's too close to home
And it's too near the bone

Offline kgs

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2016, 10:22:23 PM »
You're right about that faucet -- Williams doesn't seem to sell the Intertap faucet with flow control separately, only the Perlick. I don't have any insight into the two brands.

In these parts there are several gas and welding shops that seem to be popular sources. Two are less than 3 miles from my house.


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Offline Stevie

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Re: Hose on first?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2016, 11:11:12 PM »
The Intertap faucets are fairly new. Reviews on Aussie forums exist, but nobody has may longterm info.

The perlick flow control faucets have some negative reviews due to some internal parts not being of a high enough quality stainless to pour ciders or other highly acidic beverages.

I've been learning a lot lately from Aussie Homebrew forums. Those guys don't sugar coat.