Author Topic: Spring Water  (Read 2406 times)

Offline flbrewer

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2161
    • View Profile
Spring Water
« on: March 15, 2016, 10:14:40 PM »
I'm considering switching to spring water (Zephyrhills here in Florida) over my current routine of RO. The reason is that there is obviously more of an already build up water profile for me to work with. They report online but there are some issues. It's from 2013, there are 5 different springs listed as possible sources. Additionally, the minerals I'm interested in are listed with ranges. Calcium for instance, is listed as 3.3-16. Sodium, 2.2-8.5, etc.

Any thoughts to how different these sources are? My other thought is that these numbers aren't a big leap from starting from zero.

Most of the ranges are tighter averaging about 5 ppm...probably not an issue if I pick the median?

Here's the report if you're interested...

http://www.nestle-watersna.com/asset-library/Documents/ZH_BWQR.pdf

Offline Phil_M

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1706
  • Southern Maryland
    • View Profile
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2016, 10:22:33 PM »
Other than the recent beer, have you had any issues with your RO water? Is it significantly more expensive than the spring water?

I feel like trading RO water, with known mineral additions, for the spring water you detail would be a step in the wrong direction. You're going from a more or less certainty to a more uncertain method.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline flbrewer

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2161
    • View Profile
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2016, 10:30:09 PM »
Other than the recent beer, have you had any issues with your RO water? Is it significantly more expensive than the spring water?

I feel like trading RO water, with known mineral additions, for the spring water you detail would be a step in the wrong direction. You're going from a more or less certainty to a more uncertain method.

No, not that I know of. I've only used Gypsum and CaCl to date, which gives me calcium, chloride and sulfates. I'm stuck with no way to build up magnesium or sodium currently. I know there are ways to build this up, but haven't tried yet.

Offline Phil_M

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1706
  • Southern Maryland
    • View Profile
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2016, 10:35:19 PM »
With my RO water, I use gypsum, calcium chloride, and epsom salt. (Magnesium chloride/MgSO4*H2O) I've also got some 10% phosphoric acid that I'll use if needed.

With those three, I've never had any issues getting the "core" minerals needed. I think Martin has said that magnesium isn't always needed? Anyway, I've left it out on occasion and haven't had any glaring issues.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline flbrewer

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2161
    • View Profile
Spring Water
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2016, 10:44:39 PM »
With my RO water, I use gypsum, calcium chloride, and epsom salt. (Magnesium chloride/MgSO4*H2O) I've also got some 10% phosphoric acid that I'll use if needed.

With those three, I've never had any issues getting the "core" minerals needed. I think Martin has said that magnesium isn't always needed? Anyway, I've left it out on occasion and haven't had any glaring issues.

(Magnesium chloride/MgSO4*H2O)

Can you elaborate on what this is?

trentm

  • Guest
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2016, 10:45:05 PM »
Switching to the spring water will not help you meet your pH goals.

It will complicate the use of your spreadsheet because now you'll have to enter that profile as the base water profile and because the profile is not specific you'll be guessing.

The spring water is close enough to RO water that you might as well stick with the RO.

Here's a suggestion (that'll meet with resistance)!  Buy the spring water and brew with it.  Don't adjust it, just brew with it, no calculators no worrying about pH just make a beer!  Or better yet, use your RO water or tap water!

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2016, 10:46:35 PM »
Here's the resistance - chlorine and/or chloramines from tap water? Pass.


Edit - Even using campden, local water supplies can vary from month to month, season to season. To each his own.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 10:48:53 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline Phil_M

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1706
  • Southern Maryland
    • View Profile
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2016, 10:49:23 PM »
With my RO water, I use gypsum, calcium chloride, and epsom salt. (Magnesium chloride/MgSO4*H2O) I've also got some 10% phosphoric acid that I'll use if needed.

With those three, I've never had any issues getting the "core" minerals needed. I think Martin has said that magnesium isn't always needed? Anyway, I've left it out on occasion and haven't had any glaring issues.

(Magnesium chloride/MgSO4*H2O)

Can you elaborate on what this is?

Epsom salt. Can be found in just about any grocery store, in food grade form. Few things are better for an ingrown toe nail or sore ankle than a soak in hot water and epsom salt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_sulfate

I believe there's an entry point for it in bru'n water.

Note: Epsom salt is also a laxative. I doubt you'd use it in enough quantity to cause problems when brewing, but I certainly wouldn't overdo it.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

trentm

  • Guest
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2016, 10:49:33 PM »
Here's the resistance - chlorine and/or chloramines from tap water? Pass.

Seriously?  Common sense would dictate that depending on the level of chlorine/chloramine you may not even have to worry about it.  If you're really concerned crush a campden tablet and put half in your strike water and half in sparge water.

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2016, 10:50:29 PM »
Here's the resistance - chlorine and/or chloramines from tap water? Pass.

Seriously?  Common sense would dictate that depending on the level of chlorine/chloramine you may not even have to worry about it.  If you're really concerned crush a campden tablet and put half in your strike water and half in sparge water.



You missed my edit, also about local water supplies varying throughout the year.
Jon H.

Offline jmitchell3

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2016, 10:51:35 PM »
Yeah go with RO. Adjust with gypsum and caCl to get to desired chloride to sulfate ratio for style along with minimum calcium (50 ppm or so) required for good fermentation. Continue to use lactic like you've been doing to adjust further as needed for target mash ph. Use brunwater at 100% ro dilution then go from there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 10:53:05 PM »
Yeah go with RO. Adjust with gypsum and caCl to get to desired chloride to sulfate ratio for style along with minimum calcium (50 ppm or so) required for good fermentation. Continue to use lactic like you've been doing to adjust further as needed for target mash ph. Use brunwater at 100% ro dilution then go from there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



+1
Jon H.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • View Profile
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2016, 11:09:44 PM »
lifeless water=lifeless beer IMO.  use your minerals and target..better tasting beer will result.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2016, 11:14:21 PM »
Yep. It's 2 phase for me (and most of us) - pH control and flavor. The right profile can make a good beer great.
Jon H.

Offline Phil_M

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1706
  • Southern Maryland
    • View Profile
Re: Spring Water
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2016, 11:15:22 PM »
My beers were terrible when I used tap water. My city water is about as bad for brewing as it can get, no calcium and high levels of sodium. I've no idea if it's softened at the treatment plant or what, but it makes awful beer. Really bad mineral flavor that wouldn't go away.

I got lucky in that 5.2 pH buffer helped, but only once I started learning about water chemistry and using Bru'n water did my beer turn the corner. It's freed me up to tackle other issues.

I really don't worry much about pH, I target 5.4 in Bru'n water regardless of style and leave it at that for now.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.