[denny]

I more often get weird caramel notes from oxidized beer than I get wet cardboard.

[beersk]

I more often get weird caramel notes from oxidized beer than I get wet cardboard.

Same here, Denny.

[denny]

I more often get weird caramel notes from oxidized beer than I get wet cardboard.

Same here, Denny.

Glad I'm not the only one!  But it's also why I'm puzzled when I hear effects of oxidation described as "malt thinness".  I get the opposite.

[beersk]

I more often get weird caramel notes from oxidized beer than I get wet cardboard.

Same here, Denny.

Glad I'm not the only one!  But it's also why I'm puzzled when I hear effects of oxidation described as "malt thinness".  I get the opposite.

Maybe not malt thinness but body thinness. The beer just seems to turn watery. I could be mistaking the effects of gelatin for pulling down too many malt proteins instead of oxidation though (if that is what you're referring to in my statement).

[hopfenundmalz]

I get a dull and muddled malt flavor. Crystal malts get a toffee flavor. Hops can get dull in the flavor, and the catty ribes go up. Honey in a light colored lager's aroma is oxidation - I don't buy many German lagers due to this almost always being in the aroma here. Big beers can take on dark fruit notes. Dark malts oxidize to the leather and sherry notes IIRC. Cardboard is one of the end products of oxidation, there are many tell tale signs along the way.

[denny]

Maybe not malt thinness but body thinness. The beer just seems to turn watery. I could be mistaking the effects of gelatin for pulling down too many malt proteins instead of oxidation though (if that is what you're referring to in my statement).

In all my years of brewing, body thinness is I've ever equated to oxidation.  I have sen it happen by overfining or filtering.

[denny]

I get a dull and muddled malt flavor. Crystal malts get a toffee flavor. Hops can get dull in the flavor, and the catty robes go up. Honey in a light colored lager's aroma is oxidation - I don't buy many German lagers due to this almost always being in the aroma here. Big beers can take on dark fruit notes. Dark malts oxidize to the leather and sherry notes IIRC. Cardboard is one of the end products of oxidation, there are many tell tale signs along the way.

Well described, Jeff.

[HoosierBrew]

I more often get weird caramel notes from oxidized beer than I get wet cardboard.

Same here, Denny.

Glad I'm not the only one!

I get weird caramel flavor, too. But I've had a beer or two over the years that had wet cardboard character. I always wondered if one progresses into the other, or if beers with more crystal tend to get the weird caramel flavor if it gets oxidized. I assume the latter.

[tommymorris]

There was a nice talk on oxidation from the 2016 HomebrewCon.  The talk covers many oxidation related flavors, their sources, and when they occur in a beer's life in addition to how to avoid oxidation.

Papery/cardboard is a later stage flavor. The caramel sweetness is also mentioned as a oxidation related issue.

"Identifying and Avoiding Oxidation Brian Bergquist"

Audio:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/presentations/audio/2016/HomebrewCon16%20-%20Identifying%20and%20Avoiding%20Oxidation.mp3

Slides:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/presentations/pdf/2016/HomebrewCon16%20-%20Identifying%20and%20Avoiding%20Oxidation.pdf

You have to be a AHA member to access.

[HoosierBrew]

Tommy, hadn't gotten around to that one yet. It's a good one. Thanks for posting!

[Iliff Ave]

Thanks for the link. I will definitely check it out. Sorry for any annoyance. I am that guy who doesn't know what he is tasting...

[HoosierBrew]

I am that guy who doesn't know what he is tasting...

Man, we all start out that way. Luckily we can train our palates over time, to a good extent. I can spot a lot of things, but occasionally I have to drink a comp beer while reading the scoresheet to get the critique to sink in. Good habit to get into anyway.

[tommymorris]

No annoyance at all. I definitely have trouble identifying some of the major off flavors.

Personally, I always worry about off flavors in my beers because I drink them too early. It's amazing how much beers change in the first few weeks in the keg.

[ynotbrusum]

I definitely agree with Jeff's gradient approach to oxidation.  And the more delicate the beer, the quicker it seems to travel through the spectrum.  I sure want to try that Brewtan B on some light ones.

[brewinhard]

I get a dull and muddled malt flavor. Crystal malts get a toffee flavor. Hops can get dull in the flavor, and the catty ribes go up. Honey in a light colored lager's aroma is oxidation - I don't buy many German lagers due to this almost always being in the aroma here. Big beers can take on dark fruit notes. Dark malts oxidize to the leather and sherry notes IIRC. Cardboard is one of the end products of oxidation, there are many tell tale signs along the way.

Agree with all of this except for the leather. If one is getting leather, then that is many times likely due to brett infections. At least, in what I have observed.