[majorvices]

I too do not envy your role, and you do have a right to speak your opinion. As mods you should also be here to deter and end trolling. Not only has one particular member continually trolled others, but Keith has directly trolled a member and Denny has certainly goated a member.

I certainly never intended to and I apologize if that was so.

[denny]

I too do not envy your role, and you do have a right to speak your opinion. As mods you should also be here to deter and end trolling. Not only has one particular member continually trolled others, but Keith has directly trolled a member and Denny has certainly goated a member.

I certainly never intended to did and I apologize if that was so.

Likewise.  I was just being a member questioning something that I felt needed to be questioned.  I hope that even as mods we still have the right to do that.

[dilluh98]

Can we discuss low oxygen brewing on this thread seeing as the title is low oxygen brewing or will this be a "derail" thread that's ok sometimes but not others? I'm looking for anyone's feedback on brewing darker ales with low oxygen techniques - specifically the application of higher mash pH than Kunze would advocate for. Even more specifically, if anyone has tried a stout at mash pH 5.6 with low oxygen.

I'd also like to see any case where a beginner question was answered with low oxygen being crammed down their neck. I just don't see it.

[natebrews]

I was just tasting a pilsner that I brewed very similar to the pale ale that I mentioned on some previous posts that has a chemically nature in the "far aftertaste", and I get something of the same thing in that one but not as strong.  One thing that I did different was to use Clarity Ferm in these two batches (the chill haze/ gluten reducer stuff from White Labs).  I have used this stuff many times before without any issues, but never in beers that were brewed using the low oxygen techniques.   I'm curious if it is possible that the residual sulfites and ascorbic acid might be interacting with it in some way or another.  It seems like a big stretch, but I'm running out of theories on this one. 

[dilluh98]

I hate to interrupt this cathartic moment...

I was just tasting a pilsner that I brewed very similar to the pale ale that I mentioned on some previous posts that has a chemically nature in the "far aftertaste", and I get something of the same thing in that one but not as strong.  One thing that I did different was to use Clarity Ferm in these two batches (the chill haze/ gluten reducer stuff from White Labs).  I have used this stuff many times before without any issues, but never in beers that were brewed using the low oxygen techniques.   I'm curious if it is possible that the residual sulfites and ascorbic acid might be interacting with it in some way or another.  It seems like a big stretch, but I'm running out of theories on this one.

I haven't encountered this taste. I've had some sulfur on ale yeast that faded pretty quickly if SMB is kept at or below 50 ppm but nothing like you're describing. The only clarifier I use (besides the 10% BtB in the "trifecta" mixture) is Irish Moss at 10 min, my chiller is stainless steel and I have no other copper in my system. Anyone else with experience with AA and copper (without BtB)?

[homoeccentricus]

+1 behavior of the mods has been terrible.

I agree totally. They have been wearing two hats, have engaged in borderline trolling and have allowed full-fledged trolling without intervening. Let's face it folks: low oxygen brewing is dead on this forum. Better stick your questions to things like "should mash thickness in round and square coolers be different? ", "is NE IPA really a new style or can we just continue making fun of it?", or "is it true that Belgians are not allowed to drink dubbels when eating waffles?".

Hang on, why are we mods getting the blame for anything? Arguably there hasn't been any forum violations ... or has there? The mods (me included) aren't sure how to handle this. On one side, there is the fact that folks are posting legitimate feedback to their experiences. On the other, there is a couple of folks insinuating, more or less, that if you aren't doing things specifically in a certain way ... that your beer is crap.

I would love to know how you feel it should be handled. None of us want for any knowledge to be silenced, but neither do we want there to be a dictation on what has to be done to make good beer.

Look, any time I even disagree with the "authors" I get reported. REPORTED! Crap like this. An actual report in my in box:

"Your biased and temperamental response preserved for all to see is all the satisfaction I'll ever need. I'm surprised you posted something like that knowing that everyone on the forum would get to see it. " If the joker who sent me that didn't want it posted publicly he shouldn't have sent it. BTW: Screw you!

What the hell is wrong with you people? I volunteer my time to try to make this a great place for beginners and advanced brewers alike. This has gotten ridiculous!

If you people want me to be removed as a forum mod, I recommend you start a petition to do it. I honestly do this because I love this forum, and I love this hobby. Hell I love the community here. But lately it has gotten to the point where some folks can't post an opinion without a negative response contradicting their experience.

Not sure who "you people" is. The worst thing I ever posted on this forum, privately or publicly,  is a picture of Belgian waffles. But the impression I had from across the Atlantic -  I admit being interested in the low oxygen paradigm, but otherwise am not too much involved emotionally - was that some of the mods were wearing two hats: one "private member" hat, quite strongly opposed to the ideas of low oxygen brewing and one "mod" hat, and that the private hat was sometimes getting in the way of the mod hat.

[majorvices]

Can we discuss low oxygen brewing on this thread seeing as the title is low oxygen brewing or will this be a "derail" thread that's ok sometimes but not others? I'm looking for anyone's feedback on brewing darker ales with low oxygen techniques - specifically the application of higher mash pH than Kunze would advocate for. Even more specifically, if anyone has tried a stout at mash pH 5.6 with low oxygen.

I'd also like to see any case where a beginner question was answered with low oxygen being crammed down their neck. I just don't see it.

We certainly can but make sure you understand that you posed a direct question that was not related to LODO brewing.

There are posts like this: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=28551.0

Yeah, it's not extract brewing but it is an instance where personal experience is over ruled by complete dogma. Instances like this aren't about discussion. Sorry. It is about shutting peoples experiences down based on something read in a text book and not really even applicable to 5 or 10 gallon batches.

[majorvices]

+1 behavior of the mods has been terrible.

I agree totally. They have been wearing two hats, have engaged in borderline trolling and have allowed full-fledged trolling without intervening. Let's face it folks: low oxygen brewing is dead on this forum. Better stick your questions to things like "should mash thickness in round and square coolers be different? ", "is NE IPA really a new style or can we just continue making fun of it?", or "is it true that Belgians are not allowed to drink dubbels when eating waffles?".

Hang on, why are we mods getting the blame for anything? Arguably there hasn't been any forum violations ... or has there? The mods (me included) aren't sure how to handle this. On one side, there is the fact that folks are posting legitimate feedback to their experiences. On the other, there is a couple of folks insinuating, more or less, that if you aren't doing things specifically in a certain way ... that your beer is crap.

I would love to know how you feel it should be handled. None of us want for any knowledge to be silenced, but neither do we want there to be a dictation on what has to be done to make good beer.

Look, any time I even disagree with the "authors" I get reported. REPORTED! Crap like this. An actual report in my in box:

"Your biased and temperamental response preserved for all to see is all the satisfaction I'll ever need. I'm surprised you posted something like that knowing that everyone on the forum would get to see it. " If the joker who sent me that didn't want it posted publicly he shouldn't have sent it. BTW: Screw you!

What the hell is wrong with you people? I volunteer my time to try to make this a great place for beginners and advanced brewers alike. This has gotten ridiculous!

If you people want me to be removed as a forum mod, I recommend you start a petition to do it. I honestly do this because I love this forum, and I love this hobby. Hell I love the community here. But lately it has gotten to the point where some folks can't post an opinion without a negative response contradicting their experience.

Not sure who "you people" is. The worst thing I ever posted on this forum, privately or publicly,  is a picture of Belgian waffles. But the impression I had from across the Atlantic -  I admit being interested in the low oxygen paradigm, but otherwise am not too much involved emotionally - was that some of the mods were wearing two hats: one "private member" hat, quite strongly opposed to the ideas of low oxygen brewing and one "mod" hat, and that the private hat was sometimes getting in the way of the mod hat.

OK so please tell me how you would do it better. And yes, "you people" includes you.

[dilluh98]

Can we discuss low oxygen brewing on this thread seeing as the title is low oxygen brewing or will this be a "derail" thread that's ok sometimes but not others? I'm looking for anyone's feedback on brewing darker ales with low oxygen techniques - specifically the application of higher mash pH than Kunze would advocate for. Even more specifically, if anyone has tried a stout at mash pH 5.6 with low oxygen.

I'd also like to see any case where a beginner question was answered with low oxygen being crammed down their neck. I just don't see it.

We certainly can but make sure you understand that you posed a direct question that was not related to LODO brewing.

There are posts like this: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=28551.0

Yeah, it's not extract brewing but it is an instance where personal experience is over ruled by complete dogma. Instances like this aren't about discussion. Sorry. It is about shutting peoples experiences down based on something read in a text book and not really even applicable to 5 or 10 gallon batches.

And who was the initial instigator in the thread you quote above??? Bryan gave a quote from literature about the impact of hard boils. Then a certain member makes a direct attack on him for providing that information. This is silly, I'll just PM the people who want to discuss experiences from low oxygen from now on. Later.

[majorvices]

Can we discuss low oxygen brewing on this thread seeing as the title is low oxygen brewing or will this be a "derail" thread that's ok sometimes but not others? I'm looking for anyone's feedback on brewing darker ales with low oxygen techniques - specifically the application of higher mash pH than Kunze would advocate for. Even more specifically, if anyone has tried a stout at mash pH 5.6 with low oxygen.

I'd also like to see any case where a beginner question was answered with low oxygen being crammed down their neck. I just don't see it.

We certainly can but make sure you understand that you posed a direct question that was not related to LODO brewing.

There are posts like this: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=28551.0

Yeah, it's not extract brewing but it is an instance where personal experience is over ruled by complete dogma. Instances like this aren't about discussion. Sorry. It is about shutting peoples experiences down based on something read in a text book and not really even applicable to 5 or 10 gallon batches.

And who was the initial instigator in the thread you quote above??? Bryan gave a quote from literature about the impact of hard boils. Then a certain member makes a direct attack on him for providing that information. This is silly, I'll just PM the people who want to discuss experiences from low oxygen from now on. Later.

I just went and read the same thread you must have looked at and think you most certainly are no seeing what I am seeing. What would you have me, as a mod, do differently? Please PM with any suggestions. Thanks.

[denny]

Can we discuss low oxygen brewing on this thread seeing as the title is low oxygen brewing

Yes, please!

[denny]

Not sure who "you people" is. The worst thing I ever posted on this forum, privately or publicly,  is a picture of Belgian waffles. But the impression I had from across the Atlantic -  I admit being interested in the low oxygen paradigm, but otherwise am not too much involved emotionally - was that some of the mods were wearing two hats: one "private member" hat, quite strongly opposed to the ideas of low oxygen brewing and one "mod" hat, and that the private hat was sometimes getting in the way of the mod hat.

I think your "strongly opposed" is mischaracterizing people's responses.  Being skeptical is not the same as being opposed.

[Big Monk]

Look, any time I even disagree with the "authors" I get reported. REPORTED! Crap like this. An actual report in my in box:

"Your biased and temperamental response preserved for all to see is all the satisfaction I'll ever need. I'm surprised you posted something like that knowing that everyone on the forum would get to see it. " If the joker who sent me that didn't want it posted publicly he shouldn't have sent it. BTW: Screw you!

Well, I'm your huckleberry. I am the "joker" he is talking about and I did send that exact message because it's true. I reported on the draconian level of thread locking the other day. This was my message:

"I feel like my complaints about this post speak for themselves. I think the effects of posts like serve to drive meaningful contributors to topics of hard brewing science back underground."

To which the person I reported, Kieth in this case, responded to my personal email with an LOL and "Feel free to proposition having me removed as a mod."

That's what prompted my "joker" responses from above. Which was a direct email reply and not the content of a post report.

You guys know where to find the content we have created but I can guarantee you we will have a much less active role here from now on.

[stpug]

I just went and read the same thread you must have looked at and think you most certainly are no seeing what I am seeing. What would you have me, as a mod, do differently? Please PM with any suggestions. Thanks.

I would start by splitting this thread we're all hijacking into a new one at about this point:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=27965.msg375816#msg375816

Then those who have ideas about how this forum is administered and moderated can have their say in the new thread, while those that just want to continue the discussion on low oxygen brewing methods and techniques can do so.  Otherwise, this thread will reach it's "lifespan" and be shut down (like some others were recently).

[denny]

In an effort to get this thread back to helping people interested in the original topic, I ask you all to address other concerns to us in a PM.  That way we can take it out of here.