[Sasha]

And eventually I want to try to do an Apple Cider with Banana Beer, mixed into one drink.

Apple is Malic Acid, Banana is Isoamyl Acetate. I am also going to try a Perry, but I might do that in the 6 Gallon or a 5 Gallon, because I am not sure where I will get 55 Gallons of Pear Juice or Pear Concentrate mainly.

You may have TTb issues with that idea.  Seriously, guy, you need to talk to a lawyer who knows this stuff.

I'm not selling it right now. This is just for our own personal use right now.

[Sasha]

And I will use a little Brown Sugar too.

That will make it it drier and add no flavor.

I am going to add Sugar for sure. I want it to actually get to 18%. And I am ok with it being strong. If it is 18% we can make mixed drinks whenever we want since it has so much alcohol in it.

[Sasha]

Caramel Apple Cider looks interesting.
https://www.google.com/#q=caramel+apple+cider+ferment&spf=1498845727139

[Sasha]

Federal Law
(a)Tax-free production
(1)Cider
Subject to regulations prescribed by the Secretary, the noneffervescent product of the normal alcoholic fermentation of apple juice only, which is produced at a place other than a bonded wine cellar and without the use of preservative methods or materials, and which is sold or offered for sale as cider and not as wine or as a substitute for wine, shall not be subject to tax as wine nor to the provisions of subchapter F.

[Sasha]

I want to break down this law for everyone so that they understand what this says.

(a)Tax-free production
(1)Cider
Subject to regulations prescribed by the Secretary, the noneffervescent product of the normal alcoholic fermentation of apple juice only, which is produced at a place other than a bonded wine cellar and without the use of preservative methods or materials, and which is sold or offered for sale as cider and not as wine or as a substitute for wine, shall not be subject to tax as wine nor to the provisions of subchapter F.



(a)Tax-free production (self explanatory)

noneffervescent (no-bubbles)

normal alcoholic fermentation of apple juice only (not spiked Apple Juice, only Juice of Apples, not other fruits)

produced at a place other than a bonded wine cellar and without the use of preservative methods or materials (produced non-professionally, basically organic)

and which is sold or offered for sale as cider and not as wine or as a substitute for wine (self explanatory)

shall not be subject to tax (self explanatory)

nor to the provisions of subchapter F (You do not have to be a Bonded Winery)

[Sasha]

Ok, so the part that said "Except as prescribed by the secretary", so I looked into that.

Here are the TTB rules on "Hard Cider" and what fits the definition of "Hard Cider".
https://www.ttb.gov/main_pages/ponl-pdfs/cidercon-2017-path-act-updates-final.pdf

Carbonation is a must; and,
Between .5% and 8.5% Alcohol is a must

If it does not fit within those criteria, it is not "Hard Cider" it is just "Cider".

And in 26 US Code S 5041 it mentions that Taxes are not Applicable until 24%.

So if you don't carbonate and don't get to 24%, then you are not subject to Federal laws.

[Phil_M]

I'm sorry, I couldn't finish reading the thread, my brain is still spasming from the use of "biodiesel" and "ethanol" being used as synonyms...could we try again?

[Sasha]

I'm sorry, I couldn't finish reading the thread, my brain is still spasming from the use of "biodiesel" and "ethanol" being used as synonyms...could we try again?

Are you a big renewable energy guy or something? Lol

[denny]

And I will use a little Brown Sugar too.

That will make it it drier and add no flavor.

Ugh. I wish people would stop saying this. Maybe then I'd judge fewer C1 entries with noticeable honey, brown sugar, molasses, maple syrup characters.

But nevermind; I'm not doing this here.

Only citing my experience.

[Sasha]

And I will use a little Brown Sugar too.

That will make it it drier and add no flavor.

Ugh. I wish people would stop saying this. Maybe then I'd judge fewer C1 entries with noticeable honey, brown sugar, molasses, maple syrup characters.

But nevermind; I'm not doing this here.

Yeah, I feel like he was just going to disagree with me no matter what. Like he just wanted to say the opposite of what he thought I wanted. I had a lawyer do that once too. I paid him to go talk to him, and it was the only lawyer that I ever paid to talk to. I went in and explained my case and he literally told me that he only took the interview about the case so that he could laugh, and then told me that they weren't going to let me stay in jail for longer than a week (I was trying to stay there for 6 months to fight the charges, which I beat in 40 days in jail), and told me that I would have no option but to take probation. Then he told me to find an argument that is like the one that I was making in the lawbooks behind him, then when I said that I probably could, he just got mad and the interview ended. About 3 days later I went to jail and then stayed for 40 days (not just 1 week) and beat the case completely. After 40 days it was completely dropped, the Prosecutor took himself off the case and said that he "didn't have time to prepare" even though he had 6 years while I left the State and prepared my case.

But anyways, it seems like Denny is kind of like that Lawyer. Like he just wanted me to be wrong, and would say anything as long as it was the opposite of what he thought I was hoping he would say.

[denny]

But anyways, it seems like Denny is kind of like that Lawyer. Like he just wanted me to be wrong, and would say anything as long as it was the opposite of what he thought I was hoping he would say.

Which shows how little you know about me.  I only post from my direcgt experience, or make it clear that I'm quoting someone else's experience.

[Sasha]

But anyways, it seems like Denny is kind of like that Lawyer. Like he just wanted me to be wrong, and would say anything as long as it was the opposite of what he thought I was hoping he would say.

Which shows how little you know about me.  I only post from my direcgt experience, or make it clear that I'm quoting someone else's experience.

I understand, and so was that lawyer, it's not like he just pulled it all out of his ass. But he was wrong, completely. I think you think I am unaware of how much 18% ABV is or something, but I am very aware of how much alcohol that is. And it will be fine.

[Sasha]

Just posting this here because I haven't been able to find anyone on this website using this Yeast Brand, and I will be using it for Cider.

And I've read that once Apples ferment to a certain percent you don't even get the Apple Flavor or smell anymore and it's basically just Wine, that is what Denny was saying too basically when he said Cider is really dry, and that is when I said I would add Brown Sugar to the whole thing and Malic Acid to a few bottles to see what Malic Acid did to a few bottles since I would have 55 Gallons.

But I also found this yeast, so I am going to start using this yeast as a Cider Yeast, especially secondary fermentation for Sparkling Cider and everything. It says that it gives it a bunch of Apple and Pear smell, so that will be good for Sparkling Cider.
http://shop-usa.enartis.com/enartis-ferm-es-123-2

And I am not sure if anyone else on this thread has used this Yeast farm or whatever you call a Yeast distributor, but I'll post information on it so people can start using it if they want. I was looking for ester production, as well as 500g order ability, and this is the best site I found. Whitestar also has a big selection with good esters, but it is mostly for Rum and Whiskey, so those aren't really meant for Fruit ferments that are meant to be siphoned and drunk directly.

[denny]

But anyways, it seems like Denny is kind of like that Lawyer. Like he just wanted me to be wrong, and would say anything as long as it was the opposite of what he thought I was hoping he would say.

Which shows how little you know about me.  I only post from my direcgt experience, or make it clear that I'm quoting someone else's experience.

I understand, and so was that lawyer, it's not like he just pulled it all out of his ass. But he was wrong, completely. I think you think I am unaware of how much 18% ABV is or something, but I am very aware of how much alcohol that is. And it will be fine.

I think you're unaware of how little you know compared to most people here.

[Sasha]

But anyways, it seems like Denny is kind of like that Lawyer. Like he just wanted me to be wrong, and would say anything as long as it was the opposite of what he thought I was hoping he would say.

Which shows how little you know about me.  I only post from my direcgt experience, or make it clear that I'm quoting someone else's experience.

I understand, and so was that lawyer, it's not like he just pulled it all out of his ass. But he was wrong, completely. I think you think I am unaware of how much 18% ABV is or something, but I am very aware of how much alcohol that is. And it will be fine.

I think you're unaware of how little you know compared to most people here.

Lol. If I didn't think I could learn things here I wouldn't be here. The Cider is going to turn out fine though. I highly doubt that at the end of this brew I am going to be disappointed.