Author Topic: "High End's" Message to Craft  (Read 6755 times)

Offline narvin

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2017, 09:08:03 PM »
They are all repeating what they told themselves when they sold out!

If i am on the fence between 2 beers and one has the bottle and the other doesn't, i am going with the beer that shows the bottle.

And if the one with the bottle tastes like crap? What then?

There is a lot of bad craft beer out there. That doesn't mean I want to see good ones go down the tubes but a label isn't going to solve this issue.

The label isn't meant to solve that problem.  It has nothing to do with indicating the quality of the beer.  It's just a piece of information.  What you do with that information is up to you.

What's the point then? To identify independently made beer that is good and bad?

There's good and bad beer of all stripes. Inbev could brew any craft beer they wanted, so why are they buying breweries?  For the branding, which was based on some level of "authenticity".  I don't care if people buy it or not but this is at least forcing some level of truth in advertising for those who buy solely based on marketing (and let's face it, this is the majority of consumers).

It's not going to stop any of their distribution practices, but it can at least expose some of the deceptive marketing that is so blatantly using small brewery cachet.
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Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2017, 09:25:25 PM »
Derek, I personally don't think all the macro rice lagers are especially magical either. Just me. It's not a symbol of quality, it's info for the buyer to use or ignore. I see it as analagous to the Fair Trade coffee designation. Fair Trade coffee isn't necessarily better, it's just sold by companies that don't engage in unfair, predatory practices.

I hear you Jon. I'm not sticking up for macro beer here. I'm just saying that they should call it what it is. If you need to engage in psychological warfare to combat the dirty tactics of the big boys then so be it. Call it that though.

All this symbol says is that an independent brewer had the money to buy the rights to the symbol, and that's fine, but it's also a detriment to the truly unique and high quality craft beers out there.

I'm not on a side here. I drink all kinds of beer and homebrew. I'm just playing devils advocate for each point.

You don't have to buy the rights to the logo and you don't have to be a Brewers Association Member to use it.  All you have to do is meet the criteria set by the BA.
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"High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2017, 11:07:23 PM »
Derek, I personally don't think all the macro rice lagers are especially magical either. Just me. It's not a symbol of quality, it's info for the buyer to use or ignore. I see it as analagous to the Fair Trade coffee designation. Fair Trade coffee isn't necessarily better, it's just sold by companies that don't engage in unfair, predatory practices.

I hear you Jon. I'm not sticking up for macro beer here. I'm just saying that they should call it what it is. If you need to engage in psychological warfare to combat the dirty tactics of the big boys then so be it. Call it that though.

All this symbol says is that an independent brewer had the money to buy the rights to the symbol, and that's fine, but it's also a detriment to the truly unique and high quality craft beers out there.

I'm not on a side here. I drink all kinds of beer and homebrew. I'm just playing devils advocate for each point.

You don't have to buy the rights to the logo and you don't have to be a Brewers Association Member to use it.  All you have to do is meet the criteria set by the BA.

I misinterpreted the article then. That's my fault for not reading closely enough.

I guess I'm in the camp that says independence isn't a big deal for me. I love that some of my favorites breweries are either family owned or smaller breweries that have National distribution, but if the macros produced excellent beers I would go where the quality was. For it doesn't matter whether a macro or a craft brewer makes my beer. As long as it's good. A lot of macro beer is straight swill and so is a lot of craft beer but whether they are independent or not doesn't "resonate" with me like it does "millennials".

On the other hand, they're are guys here in this forum who own or run breweries and I can appreciate that this stuff hits closer to home than it does for me.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 11:19:37 PM by Big Monk »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2017, 11:50:32 PM »
FWIW I'm 50 years old, and a little out of Millenial range. Wouldn't mind being that age again, though.  :)
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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2017, 12:03:56 AM »
FWIW I'm 50 years old, and a little out of Millenial range. Wouldn't mind being that age again, though.  :)

I'm 32 so technically I am a millennial (although they whine too much and expect participation trophies for everything so I can't identify as one ) but I was mostly just quoting the BA press:

"Independence is a hallmark of the craft brewing industry, and it matters to the brewers who make the beer and the beer lovers who drink it. A recent study commissioned by Brewbound and conducted Nielsen found that “independent” and “independently owned” strongly resonated with the majority (81 percent) of craft beer drinkers. Increasingly, they are looking for differentiation between what’s being produced by small and independent craft brewers versus Big Beer and acquired brands. Beer drinkers, especially Millennials, expect transparency when it comes to their food and beverages. That transparency and underlying ownership can drive their purchase intent."

Offline majorvices

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2017, 12:04:35 AM »
Derek, I personally don't think all the macro rice lagers are especially magical either. Just me. It's not a symbol of quality, it's info for the buyer to use or ignore. I see it as analagous to the Fair Trade coffee designation. Fair Trade coffee isn't necessarily better, it's just sold by companies that don't engage in unfair, predatory practices.

I hear you Jon. I'm not sticking up for macro beer here. I'm just saying that they should call it what it is. If you need to engage in psychological warfare to combat the dirty tactics of the big boys then so be it. Call it that though.

All this symbol says is that an independent brewer had the money to buy the rights to the symbol, and that's fine, but it's also a detriment to the truly unique and high quality craft beers out there.

I'm not on a side here. I drink all kinds of beer and homebrew. I'm just playing devils advocate for each point.

You don't have to buy the rights to the logo and you don't have to be a Brewers Association Member to use it.  All you have to do is meet the criteria set by the BA.

I misinterpreted the article then. That's my fault for not reading closely enough.

I guess I'm in the camp that says independence isn't a big deal for me. I love that some of my favorites breweries are either family owned or smaller breweries that have National distribution, but if the macros produced excellent beers I would go where the quality was. For it doesn't matter whether a macro or a craft brewer makes my beer. As long as it's good. A lot of macro beer is straight swill and so is a lot of craft beer but whether they are independent or not doesn't "resonate" with me like it does "millennials".

On the other hand, they're are guys here in this forum who own or run breweries and I can appreciate that this stuff hits closer to home than it does for me.

Then you are extremely myopic or you are just playing devil's advocate or you are fooling yourself. There is nothing wrong with a brand designating itself as independent. Just like "InBev" has designated them self as "High End" If the beer is better, then drink it! But the the consumer has the right to know what they are drinking. They have the right to know if the beer is brewed locally and they absolutely have the right to know if fair practices are involved with the distribution of the beer. I mean, come on bro. You seem a lot smarter than this.  ;)

I'll go ahead and put it out there that Wicked Weed is a fine beer. But their marketing and hype have always been better than the actual beer.

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"High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2017, 12:38:44 AM »
Derek, I personally don't think all the macro rice lagers are especially magical either. Just me. It's not a symbol of quality, it's info for the buyer to use or ignore. I see it as analagous to the Fair Trade coffee designation. Fair Trade coffee isn't necessarily better, it's just sold by companies that don't engage in unfair, predatory practices.

I hear you Jon. I'm not sticking up for macro beer here. I'm just saying that they should call it what it is. If you need to engage in psychological warfare to combat the dirty tactics of the big boys then so be it. Call it that though.

All this symbol says is that an independent brewer had the money to buy the rights to the symbol, and that's fine, but it's also a detriment to the truly unique and high quality craft beers out there.

I'm not on a side here. I drink all kinds of beer and homebrew. I'm just playing devils advocate for each point.

You don't have to buy the rights to the logo and you don't have to be a Brewers Association Member to use it.  All you have to do is meet the criteria set by the BA.

I misinterpreted the article then. That's my fault for not reading closely enough.

I guess I'm in the camp that says independence isn't a big deal for me. I love that some of my favorites breweries are either family owned or smaller breweries that have National distribution, but if the macros produced excellent beers I would go where the quality was. For it doesn't matter whether a macro or a craft brewer makes my beer. As long as it's good. A lot of macro beer is straight swill and so is a lot of craft beer but whether they are independent or not doesn't "resonate" with me like it does "millennials".

On the other hand, they're are guys here in this forum who own or run breweries and I can appreciate that this stuff hits closer to home than it does for me.

Then you are extremely myopic or you are just playing devil's advocate or you are fooling yourself. There is nothing wrong with a brand designating itself as independent. Just like "InBev" has designated them self as "High End" If the beer is better, then drink it! But the the consumer has the right to know what they are drinking. They have the right to know if the beer is brewed locally and they absolutely have the right to know if fair practices are involved with the distribution of the beer. I mean, come on bro. You seem a lot smarter than this.  ;)

I'll go ahead and put it out there that Wicked Weed is a fine beer. But their marketing and hype have always been better than the actual beer.

a.) I'm not "lacking imagination, foresight or intellectual insight" (myopic) (Wheaton's Law?)

b.) I've said about 3 times in this thread that I'm playing devils advocate

c.) I don't think I'm fooling myself.

d.) I never said there is anything wrong with a brewery designating itself prominently as independent, I just stated that it doesn't matter to me and that stuff doesn't "resonate" with me like the BA says it does with 81% of craft beer drinkers. Of course that's only 81% of the people who took the survey...

e.) I'm certainly smarter than you are giving me credit for. I would hope so at least.

f.) As I stated in my last paragraph above, I appreciate this is a much bigger issue for some, especially those with breweries or who work for breweries.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 12:46:39 AM by Big Monk »

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2017, 01:16:52 AM »
The Trappist label says nothing about the quality, does it?
http://www.trappist.be/en/pages/trappist-beers

The Cask Marque label in the UK does.
http://cask-marque.co.uk

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2017, 01:25:31 AM »
I'd argue the Trappist label says much about the expected quality of the final product but it is also applied to far less a population of beers.


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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2017, 01:31:21 AM »
I'd argue the Trappist label says much about the expected quality of the final product but it is also applied to far less a population of beers.


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I was disappointed in Achel when it first came out. I was living in Germany at the time. It got better. So I stand by my statement. The rules say nothing about quality of the beer. The Monks take care of that. There are also good Abby beers, but not all of them are good.

Oh, I was disappointed in the first Spencer beers I had. They got better.
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"High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2017, 01:38:23 AM »
I'd argue the Trappist label says much about the expected quality of the final product but it is also applied to far less a population of beers.


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I was disappointed in Achel when it first came out. I was living in Germany at the time. It got better. So I stand by my statement. The rules say nothing about quality of the beer. The Monks take care of that. There are also good Abby beers, but not all of them are good.

Oh, I was disappointed in the first Spencer beers I had. They got better.

Can't argue with you there Jeff. Valid points.

On the topic of the Cask Marque in the U.K.: it would be nice if we had something like that governing quality in this country.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 01:41:17 AM by Big Monk »

Offline majorvices

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2017, 01:41:30 AM »
Derek, I personally don't think all the macro rice lagers are especially magical either. Just me. It's not a symbol of quality, it's info for the buyer to use or ignore. I see it as analagous to the Fair Trade coffee designation. Fair Trade coffee isn't necessarily better, it's just sold by companies that don't engage in unfair, predatory practices.

I hear you Jon. I'm not sticking up for macro beer here. I'm just saying that they should call it what it is. If you need to engage in psychological warfare to combat the dirty tactics of the big boys then so be it. Call it that though.

All this symbol says is that an independent brewer had the money to buy the rights to the symbol, and that's fine, but it's also a detriment to the truly unique and high quality craft beers out there.

I'm not on a side here. I drink all kinds of beer and homebrew. I'm just playing devils advocate for each point.

You don't have to buy the rights to the logo and you don't have to be a Brewers Association Member to use it.  All you have to do is meet the criteria set by the BA.

I misinterpreted the article then. That's my fault for not reading closely enough.

I guess I'm in the camp that says independence isn't a big deal for me. I love that some of my favorites breweries are either family owned or smaller breweries that have National distribution, but if the macros produced excellent beers I would go where the quality was. For it doesn't matter whether a macro or a craft brewer makes my beer. As long as it's good. A lot of macro beer is straight swill and so is a lot of craft beer but whether they are independent or not doesn't "resonate" with me like it does "millennials".

On the other hand, they're are guys here in this forum who own or run breweries and I can appreciate that this stuff hits closer to home than it does for me.

Then you are extremely myopic or you are just playing devil's advocate or you are fooling yourself. There is nothing wrong with a brand designating itself as independent. Just like "InBev" has designated them self as "High End" If the beer is better, then drink it! But the the consumer has the right to know what they are drinking. They have the right to know if the beer is brewed locally and they absolutely have the right to know if fair practices are involved with the distribution of the beer. I mean, come on bro. You seem a lot smarter than this.  ;)

I'll go ahead and put it out there that Wicked Weed is a fine beer. But their marketing and hype have always been better than the actual beer.

a.) I'm not "lacking imagination, foresight or intellectual insight" (myopic) (Wheaton's Law?)

b.) I've said about 3 times in this thread that I'm playing devils advocate

c.) I don't think I'm fooling myself.

d.) I never said there is anything wrong with a brewery designating itself prominently as independent, I just stated that it doesn't matter to me and that stuff doesn't "resonate" with me like the BA says it does with 81% of craft beer drinkers. Of course that's only 81% of the people who took the survey...

e.) I'm certainly smarter than you are giving me credit for. I would hope so at least.

f.) As I stated in my last paragraph above, I appreciate this is a much bigger issue for some, especially those with breweries or who work for breweries.

Glad I gave you a platform to explain yourself. You are welcome! ;)

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2017, 01:47:02 AM »
Derek, I personally don't think all the macro rice lagers are especially magical either. Just me. It's not a symbol of quality, it's info for the buyer to use or ignore. I see it as analagous to the Fair Trade coffee designation. Fair Trade coffee isn't necessarily better, it's just sold by companies that don't engage in unfair, predatory practices.

I hear you Jon. I'm not sticking up for macro beer here. I'm just saying that they should call it what it is. If you need to engage in psychological warfare to combat the dirty tactics of the big boys then so be it. Call it that though.

All this symbol says is that an independent brewer had the money to buy the rights to the symbol, and that's fine, but it's also a detriment to the truly unique and high quality craft beers out there.

I'm not on a side here. I drink all kinds of beer and homebrew. I'm just playing devils advocate for each point.

You don't have to buy the rights to the logo and you don't have to be a Brewers Association Member to use it.  All you have to do is meet the criteria set by the BA.

I misinterpreted the article then. That's my fault for not reading closely enough.

I guess I'm in the camp that says independence isn't a big deal for me. I love that some of my favorites breweries are either family owned or smaller breweries that have National distribution, but if the macros produced excellent beers I would go where the quality was. For it doesn't matter whether a macro or a craft brewer makes my beer. As long as it's good. A lot of macro beer is straight swill and so is a lot of craft beer but whether they are independent or not doesn't "resonate" with me like it does "millennials".

On the other hand, they're are guys here in this forum who own or run breweries and I can appreciate that this stuff hits closer to home than it does for me.

Then you are extremely myopic or you are just playing devil's advocate or you are fooling yourself. There is nothing wrong with a brand designating itself as independent. Just like "InBev" has designated them self as "High End" If the beer is better, then drink it! But the the consumer has the right to know what they are drinking. They have the right to know if the beer is brewed locally and they absolutely have the right to know if fair practices are involved with the distribution of the beer. I mean, come on bro. You seem a lot smarter than this.  ;)

I'll go ahead and put it out there that Wicked Weed is a fine beer. But their marketing and hype have always been better than the actual beer.

a.) I'm not "lacking imagination, foresight or intellectual insight" (myopic) (Wheaton's Law?)

b.) I've said about 3 times in this thread that I'm playing devils advocate

c.) I don't think I'm fooling myself.

d.) I never said there is anything wrong with a brewery designating itself prominently as independent, I just stated that it doesn't matter to me and that stuff doesn't "resonate" with me like the BA says it does with 81% of craft beer drinkers. Of course that's only 81% of the people who took the survey...

e.) I'm certainly smarter than you are giving me credit for. I would hope so at least.

f.) As I stated in my last paragraph above, I appreciate this is a much bigger issue for some, especially those with breweries or who work for breweries.

Glad I gave you a platform to explain yourself. You are welcome! ;)

So glad such a gracious moderator allowed me to redeem myself. I lacked the imagination, foresight and intellectual insight to do it on my own.

Offline tommymorris

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"High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2017, 01:49:09 AM »
I will appreciate when the new logo is rolled out and widely used. The macros are buying so many breweries it is hard to remember who is independent.

Why do I care? Because the macros have unfair business practices and I prefer to take my money elsewhere.

Regarding what mark consumers can use as a signal of quality versus non-quality; that's the brewery's name and logo. As a consumer you learn who has beer (or any other product) you do and don't like.

Offline Stevie

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2017, 02:05:33 AM »
Yeah, 81% of craft drinkers must be a skewed sample. If that many cared, macro wouldn't continue to hold 80%+ of he market.

Unfortunately people will place an expected quality bias on the label. Nothing the BA can do about that.