Author Topic: "High End's" Message to Craft  (Read 4820 times)

Offline narvin

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2017, 09:56:18 PM »
I'm pretty happy to see this, although unless it get's integrated into tap handles, I don't see a huge impact. Honestly, when I was in San Diego this last weekend I was blown away by the beer selection. Unless I was at a brewery, selection was pretty standard-Ballast point, Elysian, 10 Barrel, Golden Road, Corona, & Domestics. Some great beers there, but I can completely support some of the smaller guys in trying to get some tap space. Anything you can do to help distinguish yourself.

Intentional satire here?  Ballast Point is owned by Corona's parent and the other three are all High End (Inbev).
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Offline Visor

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2017, 10:32:23 PM »
   I believe that was Wilbur's point, unless he was in a brewery all that was available was macro owned.
   Ethinson makes some valid points, particularly about SA having enough muscle to force the other indies out, I'd personally rather drink something from a large indy that's 300 miles away, than beer from one that's 1,500 miles away, especially when it is better beer.
   That being said, I still think the label is a net positive, it is a matter of informed freedom of choice.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 11:42:51 PM by Visor »
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Offline Wilbur

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #62 on: July 04, 2017, 04:46:11 PM »
Yeah, that was the point. Finally watched the video, a lot of BS on there.

-"If you're truly independent, you won't use the logo." Seems a little convoluted, I don't equate beer with punk rock.

I don't get the other part, of needing to band together to fight wine and spirits. Is say domestics are a bigger threat to craft, wine, and spirits than the rest. Anyway, I think expansion of mega breweries decreases diversity overall. There are some places that may not have carried craft without the bud sales rep throwing some goose or 10 barrel at them, but these places aren't stocking be or innovative beers anyway. The high end keeps crying about innovation, but the beers they're pushing out are innovative. They're good beers, but it ends up stocking the taps with the same sculpin, Spacedust, etc. I'd take a red ale froma place I've never tried over another Lagunitas IPA or goose island green line.

Offline 69franx

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #63 on: July 04, 2017, 04:56:56 PM »
Well said Wilbur

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Offline Phil_M

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #64 on: July 04, 2017, 05:06:37 PM »
To a certain extent, innovation is parting of the growing issue with craft beer. Too many breweries are trying extreme beers before they have the basics worked out. I can count on one hand the available and good "drinking" craft beer in my area. Sadly, I know many who drink only BMC since the alcohol content of the average craft beer doesn't let you drink more than one or two. Nobody in their right mind wants to get s***faced, but with most craft beer you can't drink a case with your buddies without that happening.

It's like craft beer has forgotten is roots, we're so busy trying to push the boundaries and be new we've forgotten all the great beers we've made along the way. I blame the American attention span for much of this.
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Offline denny

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #65 on: July 04, 2017, 05:08:49 PM »
To a certain extent, innovation is parting of the growing issue with craft beer. Too many breweries are trying extreme beers before they have the basics worked out. I can count on one hand the available and good "drinking" craft beer in my area. Sadly, I know many who drink only BMC since the alcohol content of the average craft beer doesn't let you drink more than one or two. Nobody in their right mind wants to get s***faced, but with most craft beer you can't drink a case with your buddies without that happening.

It's like craft beer has forgotten is roots, we're so busy trying to push the boundaries and be new we've forgotten all the great beers we've made along the way. I blame the American attention span for much of this.

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Offline narvin

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #66 on: July 04, 2017, 06:18:44 PM »
I know (or knew) a lot of people who drink BMC to get s***faced.  They want to be blackout drunk by the 4th quarter of the game, not the second :-)

I remember San Diego having a good selection everywjere two years ago, but maybe I was only going to "beer bars".  I can see how the average bar or restaurant would have more beers from the big guys.
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Offline Visor

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #67 on: July 04, 2017, 11:53:05 PM »
   I too am getting more than a bit weary with all the fad beers that keep pushing the envelope for weirdness, but if that's what others want to buy right now, who am I to question their motives, or lemming-like nature. It is far easier to hide shortcomings with process if you load your beer down with enough stuff. About a year ago I found a few surviving bottles from my previous foray into homebrewing over 30 years ago, the bottles of stout were not only still drinkable, but not too bad, the lagers and pale ales were about what you'd expect. Jack up the hops level, or add a load pomegranate/mango/watermelon/ cayenne flavors and no-one will even notice the DMS or oxidation.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #68 on: July 06, 2017, 12:42:12 PM »
I'd like to support my local breweries but most are terrible. They sell a lot of beer, in my opinion, because they are local and not because they are higher quality or taste better. This all feels vaguely similar to the 80's when we were all told to buy American cars.. because well, they were American made. The problem was the quality of said vehicles were crap. The imports coming in from Japan were so much better and the value was undeniable. Eventually car companies had to either get their act together or go the way of the dinosaur, which they arguably did. It's my feeling if we support breweries based on criteria other then that.. we are enabling them to mediocrity. I want the beer I drink to be of high quality and taste good. I could give a rats ass how big the brewery is.

Unfortunately there is a lot of crap out there. There are times when I have opted for a Yuengling Lager over other local beers because I at least knew what I could expect from a Yuengling. I have also been dismayed a few times when I have picked my own beer up on the shelf and seen that it was 6 months old and way pasts its prime (when I see that I generally buy all of it off the shelf to get rid of it.)

It often amazes me at the crap people will drink, too. I've sat with friends and shared a six pack of diacetyl bomb local crap that I had to pour out but the 6 pack disappeared down people's bellies anyway..

But that will all work itself out in time. The bad breweries will start to disappear and the good breweries will get even better. Knowing that you are drinking beer from an Independent brewery doesn't make the beer tastes any better, but it does give you something to think about on how to spend your money. As in the case with Yuengling - I always choose to support an independent brewery.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #69 on: July 06, 2017, 04:17:11 PM »
I am fairly ambivalent about the craft acquisitions but that video was just the worst from start to finish. I can understand brewery owners taking the money and running but to become mouthpieces for that kind of garbage argument is quite different IMO.

I don't think a label announcing independent ownership will make a huge difference but it is the first in what I hope is a long line of the BA leading craft breweries to organize in the market. It's the only way they will effectively compete against the large brewing companies.
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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #70 on: July 06, 2017, 07:22:22 PM »
I have to guess the sales agreement all those breweries signed requires them to make these kinds of communication devices.  People can be pushed to do and say a lot of things when enough money is in play.

To me it looks like the big boys trying to establish what the logo means in the minds of the public. 

I was out of the country for the past 3 weeks so this is all news to me yesterday and today.  What I've read has never made any claims of quality concerning what's in the bottle.  All it seemed to indicate was, if you care about local/craft beer and you don't like the way the macros do business, this little up-side-down bottle lets you know the beer you are looking at is not owned by a conglomerate you may not wish to support.  Period.

The sales numbers on the macro brewers have been looking worse every year for a long time and I don't think wine and spirits have been driving that.  Yes, wine and spirits have increased their market share but that is within an overall increase in alcohol consumption in general.  If you owned a market and suddenly your numbers are dropping while everyone else's numbers are rising you can't blame that on a small trade organization with a minimal budget, out yelling your multi-million $$ monthly add campaign.

It is sad to see brewers who came from the same places we did suddenly sandbagging their roots.  It doesn't make me think the big boys are even thinking about how things have actually changed yet.  They are still in denial.  Only 6 more stages to go.   8)

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Online BrewBama

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #72 on: July 06, 2017, 10:14:36 PM »
Bah ha ha ha ha. OMG!!!!!


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Offline 69franx

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #73 on: July 06, 2017, 10:18:02 PM »
Saw that last night, just awesome

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Offline ethinson

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Re: "High End's" Message to Craft
« Reply #74 on: July 07, 2017, 05:33:32 PM »
I was out of the country for the past 3 weeks so this is all news to me yesterday and today.  What I've read has never made any claims of quality concerning what's in the bottle.  All it seemed to indicate was, if you care about local/craft beer and you don't like the way the macros do business, this little up-side-down bottle lets you know the beer you are looking at is not owned by a conglomerate you may not wish to support.  Period.

Paul

This is all well and good for those of us who are deep into the industry, but as always these moves are made for the "rest of the world" who don't care as much where the stuff in the can comes from. 

As with most things that go on a label, as several people have mentioned above, there will be an implied quality statement with the logo.  That's just how food labels work.  I'm a food scientist and there's a lot of stuff that goes on food labels and of course if it goes on a label it must be important right? That's how people's brains work.  The FDA doesn't regulate beer labels yet, but it's coming very soon.  We're already having to work on calories and nutrition facts labels. 

There's a lot of stuff out there that have nothing to do with quality, but crafty advertisers or just human intellect of "this must be different and special" turns into quality statements.  For example, if I say the words Black Angus, what do you think? Most people are going to think about a fancy downtown steakhouse like Ruth's Chris. Black Angus is a breed of cattle.  Not a quality designation.  There are three grades of meat, Select, Choice and Prime.  Choice is what you get in the grocery store, Prime is what you get in Ruth's Chris, but they are both still Black Angus.  When Hardees/Carl's Jr is advertising Angus Burgers they are banking on most people equating that with expensive steak.  Are they using Prime beef? Hell no, they are using Choice (or even Select) but people equate Angus with Prime. 

The BA's selling point is "local and independent is better".. better how? Better for the economy, better business practices, better for your community etc etc.  Over time most people will turn that into "better quality" or "tastes better".  Is the BA trying to intentionally mislead people? No, I don't think so, but they are certainly taking advantage of how human emotions work to push their message.  In essence that's how all advertising works.  Is it meant as a quality statement? No, but in 5 years that's not what people will remember about it.  People automatically assume "better quality" and pay a premium for things like "Natural", "No Corn Syrup", "Free Range", "Dolphin Safe" "GMO Free" etc etc, all of which are unregulated and mostly meaningless statements (Organic is the only one certified by the government) and don't always (or sometimes ever) equate to product quality.  It's a shell game.. and it always has been.
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