Author Topic: Bittering addition amounts for ipa  (Read 962 times)

Offline petermmitchell

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Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« on: March 11, 2018, 01:10:24 PM »
For the 1st 60min or fwh addition in standard American ipas 5-6% range, how many ibu’s do you target in BeerSmith?  I recently brewed a 10gal batch of ipa and used 1.5oz of warrior and boiled for 60min.  Was good but thinking I could add more bitterness to go with the hop flavor/aroma.  I was happy with that part.  Just curious how much others were using.  Also I did use ro water adjusted to 200ppm sulfate.


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Offline petermmitchell

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2018, 01:50:26 PM »
Here is the recipe for reference:
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 13.99 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal   
Bottling Volume: 11.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 5.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 82.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 74.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
21 lbs                Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain         1        91.0 %       
1 lbs                 Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM)              Grain         2        4.1 %         
10.0 oz               Caramel Malt - 40L (Briess) (40.0 SRM)   Grain         3        2.7 %         
8.0 oz                Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM)    Grain         4        2.2 %         
1.50 oz               Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min        Hop           5        38.0 IBUs     
0.50 oz               Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 30.0 min        Hop           6        6.0 IBUs     
2.00 oz               Amarillo [9.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  20. Hop           7        9.4 IBUs     
2.00 oz               Cascade [5.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  20.0 Hop           8        5.6 IBUs     
2.00 oz               Centennial [10.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool   Hop           9        10.2 IBUs     
2.00 oz               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool  20.0 Hop           10       13.3 IBUs     
2.0 pkg               Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35 Yeast         11       -             
3.00 oz               Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days     Hop           12       0.0 IBUs     
3.00 oz               Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days      Hop           13       0.0 IBUs     
3.00 oz               Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days  Hop           14       0.0 IBUs     
3.00 oz               Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days      Hop           15       0.0 IBUs     

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2018, 02:47:10 PM »
I usually target at least 1:1 BU:OG. So 65 IBU for a 1.065 beer. For a 1.053 beer you are over that.

What is the FG on your beer? Residual sugars can balance out the bitterness. If you want more of a punch, replace th3 warrior with Columbus or Chinook.
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Offline denny

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2018, 04:27:06 PM »
I start by deciding how much FWH I want to use (OK, you guys, don't start!  ;) )  That usually is 1-2 oz.  Then I figure out how much to use at 60 min. to get in the neighborhood of the 1:1 BU:GU ratio Jess talks about.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline petermmitchell

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 12:30:43 AM »
I usually target at least 1:1 BU:OG. So 65 IBU for a 1.065 beer. For a 1.053 beer you are over that.

What is the FG on your beer? Residual sugars can balance out the bitterness. If you want more of a punch, replace th3 warrior with Columbus or Chinook.
The fg was 1008


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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 03:52:07 AM »
I usually target at least 1:1 BU:OG. So 65 IBU for a 1.065 beer. For a 1.053 beer you are over that.

What is the FG on your beer? Residual sugars can balance out the bitterness. If you want more of a punch, replace th3 warrior with Columbus or Chinook.
The fg was 1008


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That should be dry enough, can’t recommend anything to take it down farther.
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Offline petermmitchell

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2018, 11:32:44 PM »
I start by deciding how much FWH I want to use (OK, you guys, don't start!  ;) )  That usually is 1-2 oz.  Then I figure out how much to use at 60 min. to get in the neighborhood of the 1:1 BU:GU ratio Jess talks about.
Is that ratio guideline for total ibus? Or just the bittering additions?


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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2018, 11:47:54 PM »
I start by deciding how much FWH I want to use (OK, you guys, don't start!  ;) )  That usually is 1-2 oz.  Then I figure out how much to use at 60 min. to get in the neighborhood of the 1:1 BU:GU ratio Jess talks about.
Is that ratio guideline for total ibus? Or just the bittering additions?


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Not to speak for Denny but, usually when people reffer to GU/BU its total they are talking about. 1:1 would be like 1.060 to 60 IBU.

The trouble is when it comes to high dose whirlpool additions. The science might say that no isolmerization is happening below X temp, but our mouths still translate those additions as some level of bitterness, though zero IBUs. If anyone doubts that, do a batch with no boil hops, and about 3 ounces of Simcoe at 150F for 30 min. There will be some bitterness. So, like any other ingredient, sometimes we can totally reduce hops to a numerical matrix. But experience will tell you what you like, don't like.

Offline Big Monk

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2018, 11:55:00 PM »
I start by deciding how much FWH I want to use (OK, you guys, don't start!  ;) )  That usually is 1-2 oz.  Then I figure out how much to use at 60 min. to get in the neighborhood of the 1:1 BU:GU ratio Jess talks about.
Is that ratio guideline for total ibus? Or just the bittering additions?


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Not to speak for Denny but, usually when people reffer to GU/BU its total they are talking about. 1:1 would be like 1.060 to 60 IBU.

The trouble is when it comes to high dose whirlpool additions. The science might say that no isolmerization is happening below X temp, but our mouths still translate those additions as some level of bitterness, though zero IBUs. If anyone doubts that, do a batch with no boil hops, and about 3 ounces of Simcoe at 150F for 30 min. There will be some bitterness. So, like any other ingredient, sometimes we can totally reduce hops to a numerical matrix. But experience will tell you what you like, don't like.

There are some good calcs out there that approximate the BU from whirlpool additions. We just incorporated some into our spreadsheet. Pretty simple actually, you just incorporate a modifier to the Tinseth utilization and viola.

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2018, 12:32:47 AM »
I start by deciding how much FWH I want to use (OK, you guys, don't start!  ;) )  That usually is 1-2 oz.  Then I figure out how much to use at 60 min. to get in the neighborhood of the 1:1 BU:GU ratio Jess talks about.
Is that ratio guideline for total ibus? Or just the bittering additions?


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Not to speak for Denny but, usually when people reffer to GU/BU its total they are talking about. 1:1 would be like 1.060 to 60 IBU.

The trouble is when it comes to high dose whirlpool additions. The science might say that no isolmerization is happening below X temp, but our mouths still translate those additions as some level of bitterness, though zero IBUs. If anyone doubts that, do a batch with no boil hops, and about 3 ounces of Simcoe at 150F for 30 min. There will be some bitterness. So, like any other ingredient, sometimes we can totally reduce hops to a numerical matrix. But experience will tell you what you like, don't like.

There are some good calcs out there that approximate the BU from whirlpool additions. We just incorporated some into our spreadsheet. Pretty simple actually, you just incorporate a modifier to the Tinseth utilization and viola.
I remember when I first started brewing, my early knowledge on hops was

1. Bitterness comes from isolmerized alpha acids. So obviously, there's no other way that hops could possibly make bitterness come into my beer. Check!

2. High alpha acid hops are for bittering. So you only can add them at 60 min, and they don't bring any flavor or aroma to my beer. Check!

3. Low alpha acid hops are for flavor only and you add them at 10 min before turning off the stove, or right as you turn off the stove for an advanced method called "Flameout". They don't add any bitterness, only flavor. Check!

4. Dry hops are the only way to get any aroma. Check!

Then I brewed a couple batches and start learning that there's more to it.

I use Brewer's Friend and it allows me to adjust utilization at whirlpool. For my tastes, experience, on my beers... I've gotten to where I glance at predicted IBU from my FWH/60 and then I ignore IBU from there on. It's all by experience and preference. When someone asks how many IBUs I say I don't know

Offline Robert

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2018, 12:54:59 AM »
"When someone asks how many IBUs I say I don't know"

And when someone tells you how many IBUs, they don't know!  ;)
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2018, 12:59:40 AM »
True, the IBU isn't as accurate as the IMF

Before I get in trouble... back to the original intent of the thread. 1:1 BU:GU is a good starting point for IPA
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 01:02:08 AM by klickitat jim »

Offline Robert

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2018, 01:15:28 AM »
True, the IBU isn't as accurate as the IMF

Before I get in trouble... back to the original intent of the thread. 1:1 BU:GU is a good starting point for IPA

I was partly serious:  IBU for us is WAG or at best SWAG.  So in recipe development/dialing in your system use a calculated figure as a starting point.  Like 1:1.  Then don't think in IBU, just start to learn "when I do X the beer tastes like Y."  Far more relevant than numbers.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2018, 01:33:25 AM »
I start by deciding how much FWH I want to use (OK, you guys, don't start!  ;) )  That usually is 1-2 oz.  Then I figure out how much to use at 60 min. to get in the neighborhood of the 1:1 BU:GU ratio Jess talks about.
Is that ratio guideline for total ibus? Or just the bittering additions?


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Not to speak for Denny but, usually when people reffer to GU/BU its total they are talking about. 1:1 would be like 1.060 to 60 IBU.

The trouble is when it comes to high dose whirlpool additions. The science might say that no isolmerization is happening below X temp, but our mouths still translate those additions as some level of bitterness, though zero IBUs. If anyone doubts that, do a batch with no boil hops, and about 3 ounces of Simcoe at 150F for 30 min. There will be some bitterness. So, like any other ingredient, sometimes we can totally reduce hops to a numerical matrix. But experience will tell you what you like, don't like.

The science from OSU says isomorization goes on below boiling. You get less as the temperature goes down.
Jeff Rankert
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AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Bittering addition amounts for ipa
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2018, 01:35:02 AM »
"When someone asks how many IBUs I say I don't know"

And when someone tells you how many IBUs, they don't know!  ;)
IBUs are pretty accurate for th3 beers they were developed on. The clear lagers of the 60s.
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