[coonmanxdog]

I actually once did a dark cherry ale because I was inspired by that beer from New Belgium. It was many years ago before I had my fruit techniques down. I simply added in the frozen cherries during primary, right at the beginning. Didn't get a lot of cherry flavor that way and I have since learned to use the Vintner's Harvest 49 oz. cans of fruit puree and add right when primary crashes. I get a lot better results that way.

I think that maybe one of the reasons a lot of brewers shy away from fruit beers is because of the fact that the fruit flavor can take over a beer. I did a Raspberry Ale last year where I probably should have dialed the fruit down a bit. Probably won't brew that batch again but if I did I would definitely not use a full can of the puree. It was too much for the beer and after a few it got to be a little overbearing.

[Village Taphouse]

I like classic styles. I often get turned off in the beer store by the wild creativity when I am just looking for a good lager or pale ale.

This.  Not always but most of the time.  I want a pilsner or an APA but all I see are 11% stouts made with cookies, mint extract and sprinkles!  NO!!! 

[goose]

A lot has been said about creativity vs. sticking to the traditional styles and methods.  Although, I am a competitive SOB and brew mostly to style to enter various competitions, I like to sometimes jump out of the box and try something new that may push the limits a bit.  For example, when I was on one of my winter trips to Florida a couple years ago, one of the breweries outside of Daytona made a Pumpernickel Porter which I thought was pretty damn good.  I came home and built a recipe for one.  It came out pretty good and received both some rave reviews at a local brew club meeting and some criticism as well (some said too much caraway, some said not enough).  I tweaked the recipe and entered it in a competition.  It scored pretty well but didn't medal, but that was OK for me.  It was something different. I haven't brewed it for a while because a lot of my friends like my coffee porter a bit better and I don't need to have two porters on tap here.

That is what the hobby is about, trying new things or a different interpretation of a classic style.  Does creativity sometimes overwhelm homebrewing, sure.  But without some creativity out there we would never had some new things that eventually become a rage, Hazy IPA for one (which I can take or leave but some love the style).  Black IPA is another one which I still brew and currently have on tap.  That one seemed to be a fad for a while but I still brew it, love it, and have won several medals with it.  One of my friends at Homebrew Con last year razzed me after I introduced him by saying "it's kind of a dead style, but this guy still wins medals with it".  It was something different that made its way into the BJCP style guidelines as a "specialty" IPA.

I guess what I am saying is that it's your beer and your brewing style.  Yes, there are some guidelines that should be followed to keep from making a bad batch and I follow many of them closely because I am a bit anal retentive in all things that I do (I won't reveal how high the fermentation temperature is for my Saison    ).  But if you want to try something new, why not?  If what you put in the beer is too much and it covers up the base beer flavor, then you can adjust it the next time to achieve a better balance.  Yes, "beer should taste like beer" but enhancing it with something new that adds a different dimension is fun to try.

[TXFlyGuy]

Is the creativity of the homebrew community limited by the artificial labeling of right/wrong, do this but don't do that and the use of software and commercial brewing parameters as a guide?  Do arguments of mash pH, pH measurement temperature, mash step temperatures, water, etc... fruitfully contribute to the hobby as a whole or do they just pigeon hole things as right or wrong, my way is the best.

Or is it the opposite, they act as guidelines such that a motivated individual who is willing to read/research enough will be able to know what is needed to brew a good beer?  As long as they're still willing to think outside the box of parameters that has been outlined for them.

You could actually pose this question to the big commercial brewers. They are able to brew almost anything, and do it very well. Yet their real "creativity" seems to be hyper restrained.

Of course, there are a few exceptions to the rule.

[santoch]

Now there are some basic things that I always follow. And that is always good. But when it comes to ingredients I think that the sky is the limit. Except for maybe using peanut butter or chicken in a beer. LOL.

Annie Johnson makes fried chicken beer.  I've made clam chowder saison.

I've had her Chicken Beer!  She served it at Club Night in Portland.

[goose]

Is the creativity of the homebrew community limited by the artificial labeling of right/wrong, do this but don't do that and the use of software and commercial brewing parameters as a guide?  Do arguments of mash pH, pH measurement temperature, mash step temperatures, water, etc... fruitfully contribute to the hobby as a whole or do they just pigeon hole things as right or wrong, my way is the best.

Or is it the opposite, they act as guidelines such that a motivated individual who is willing to read/research enough will be able to know what is needed to brew a good beer?  As long as they're still willing to think outside the box of parameters that has been outlined for them.

You could actually pose this question to the big commercial brewers. They are able to brew almost anything, and do it very well. Yet their real "creativity" seems to be hyper restrained.

Of course, there are a few exceptions to the rule.

Yes, they are somewhat restrained because they have to make what will sell and generate profit.  A few of them will try something new on a pilot system to see if the public will like it.  Bit that does not happen a lot on the commercial side.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[denny]

Now there are some basic things that I always follow. And that is always good. But when it comes to ingredients I think that the sky is the limit. Except for maybe using peanut butter or chicken in a beer. LOL.

Annie Johnson makes fried chicken beer.  I've made clam chowder saison.

I've had her Chicken Beer!  She served it at Club Night in Portland.

And San Diego, when we were serving the Clam Chowdah Saison

[chinaski]

I think creativity is a broad concept and what might be a creative leap for one person is business as usual for another.  I do enjoy listening to what other types of creators/artists say about creativity, especially musicians.  Across the board, what I find fascinating is how some musicians are both technically brilliant and creative, others are not great in their technique with their instrument but produce great music, and some are technically gifted but choose to make music that I consider not creative or new.  I remember hearing an interview with Jack White from the White Stripes (yeah I know- you like 'em or you don't) who said he really liked Meg's drumming because she wasn't a technically great drummer but her "primitive" approach worked for the songs that they created together.  I also like his approach to creation where he intentionally constrains the options he has.  How much can you do with 2 instruments and a voice or two grains, two hop varieties, and a limit choice of yeasts?

A brewery that I admire tremendously for their creativity but am not a big fan of their beer is Scratch Brewing in Ava, Illinois.  They pursue very creative ideas for beer.

I wonder if the most creative home brewers are out there and just don't participate in beer forums?

[EHall]

why would they waste their time here arguing discussing trivial processes and what's 'creative' when they are home/work being creative?!

[denny]

why would they waste their time here arguing discussing trivial processes and what's 'creative' when they are home/work being creative?!

same reason you do?

[Northern_Brewer]

I've had her Chicken Beer!  She served it at Club Night in Portland.

But we were talking creativity - people have been putting chickens in beer since at least the 17th century : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_ale

Meat stout was popular until WWII forced it to be discontinued : http://zythophile.co.uk/2019/11/20/the-legendary-mercers-meat-stout-returns-after-75-years/

[hopfenundmalz]

I know that I had developed a bias against extract brews...until at a club meeting a few short years ago, I had a sublime RIS that a club member brought.  I asked him about his recipe and my jaw just dropped when he said it was an all extract and steeping grains brew.  Later I found out that due to mash tun limitations, one of my club's most prolific national award winners added extract to his all grain base, because he didn't have a big enough mash tun to get to the ABV he sought (and taste profile he achieved).  And his RIS is extraordinary.  I don't brew often with extract, but every once in a great while it is fun to do a batch with super fresh extract and see if anyone even questions it....

Pro breweries will use 50 Lb sack of malT extract to boost gravity of the mash run is maxed out.

Won the competition at a brewpub in Ann Arbor with a Baltic Porter. When scaled up, the brewer used a 50 LB sack for 7 bbls, as his mash run was maxed out.

I've brewed this one, it turned out very nice, I only had to use 3 Lbs malt extract. This would have been when Bell's was all in K'zoo. Not sure what they do for high OG beers in the Galesburg production brewery.


https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/bells-brewery-expedition-stout-clone/

[narvin]

I think there's a difference between expanding creativity and ignoring the science of brewing that has been learned over hundreds of years.  You can use scientific information to boost your creativity, in fact; for example, what we've learned about hop biotransformations.  But there's no reason to do things that we know go against basic best practices of brewing.

[Big Monk]

I think there's a difference between expanding creativity and ignoring the science of brewing that has been learned over hundreds of years.  You can use scientific information to boost your creativity, in fact; for example, what we've learned about hop biotransformations.  But there's no reason to do things that we know go against basic best practices of brewing.

I agree and my argument is that a brewer is really more an applied scientist, akin to an engineer. You aren’t a slave to the science as written, but you can take those concepts and mold them in the field to work for you.

For instance, while Maxwell’s equations literally govern everything I do as an electrical engineer, I don’t use them in the true sense in my day to day activities. Rather, I utilize the basic relationships between power, voltage, current, power factor, etc. to do analysis.

When I quote or link a brewing paper, I'm not advocating everything in it in the literal sense. I’m looking for the application to what we do. It’s usually there and it’s usually pretty creative.

[denny]

Has anyone actually defined "creativity " in this thread in a way that relates to brewing?  What is creativity?  Is it throwing a load of unusual ingredients at a beer?  Is it thinking of a new way to look at process?  Something else?