[Wilbur]

Ever been to a LHBS that lets you weigh out your own grains?

[Bob357]

Do you eat in restaurants or eat fast food? How about fresh meat and produce from the grocery store? I'm sure we all are exposed to many more thing in our food than you're envisioning with the repackaged DME.

 RDWHAHB

[rungdalek]

So much here. My only concern would be the the moisture issue, which would be obvious. I just don't see the problem comparted to other food packaging, in fact DME gets boiled so there is no problem.
Do you ever buy things from a grocery store deli? What about all the things in a store that they buy in bulk and sell as their store brand in plastic containers, many of them ready to eat salads and such. Have you ever eaten in a restaurant? Bought self serve bulk nuts, grains, flour etc. in a store? Do you eat vegetables?
Apart from the hundreds of examples of more problematic packaging than this I could go on with, I think you have misplaced confidence in the larger corporations. The U.S. has less and less food safety enforcement. I would have much more confidence that my LHBS would safely package DME than General Mills would scrupulously make sure there are less than X amount of mouse turds in your corn flakes.

Industrial processes aren't perfect but I would put more faith in an industrial/commercial DME packaging facility than an LHBS putting DME in a zip lock bag.

I guess I don't understand the hangup with DME vs any other food product or homebrewing product like hops or grain. I take it you would never go to a restaurant or get a take out sandwich?

Restaurants are controlled food preparation facilities, an LHBS is not.

I think you have a weird faith in restaurant workers and factories and a weird paranoia about lhbs employees intentionally trying to harm you.

Doesn't the FDA have certain rules/regulations when it comes to repackaging food products?

The whole restaurant argument... IDK those people are preparing food, not just giving you the raw ingredients and I tend to choose places where I can observer the workers.  I also don't do the whole online grocery shopping or the companies that will send you the ingredients to make your meals... yea I have a problem with that too, though those companies are probably more highly scrutinized and governed than an LHBS.

The grain argument has been covered.

So admittedly I won't be buying the zip lock bag of DME but will still purchase the OEM packaged products if available.

[fredthecat]

it takes all kinds. pheww

[pete b]

So much here. My only concern would be the the moisture issue, which would be obvious. I just don't see the problem comparted to other food packaging, in fact DME gets boiled so there is no problem.
Do you ever buy things from a grocery store deli? What about all the things in a store that they buy in bulk and sell as their store brand in plastic containers, many of them ready to eat salads and such. Have you ever eaten in a restaurant? Bought self serve bulk nuts, grains, flour etc. in a store? Do you eat vegetables?
Apart from the hundreds of examples of more problematic packaging than this I could go on with, I think you have misplaced confidence in the larger corporations. The U.S. has less and less food safety enforcement. I would have much more confidence that my LHBS would safely package DME than General Mills would scrupulously make sure there are less than X amount of mouse turds in your corn flakes.

Industrial processes aren't perfect but I would put more faith in an industrial/commercial DME packaging facility than an LHBS putting DME in a zip lock bag.

I guess I don't understand the hangup with DME vs any other food product or homebrewing product like hops or grain. I take it you would never go to a restaurant or get a take out sandwich?

Restaurants are controlled food preparation facilities, an LHBS is not.

I think you have a weird faith in restaurant workers and factories and a weird paranoia about lhbs employees intentionally trying to harm you.

Doesn't the FDA have certain rules/regulations when it comes to repackaging food products?

The whole restaurant argument... IDK those people are preparing food, not just giving you the raw ingredients and I tend to choose places where I can observer the workers.  I also don't do the whole online grocery shopping or the companies that will send you the ingredients to make your meals... yea I have a problem with that too, though those companies are probably more highly scrutinized and governed than an LHBS.

The grain argument has been covered.

So admittedly I won't be buying the zip lock bag of DME but will still purchase the OEM packaged products if available.

I think that these things are largely a matter of sensitivities and conditioning, not all of it conscious and much of it illogical. I am sure there are things that I avoid that are scientifically safer than other things I consume.
That being said I worked in foodservice for 25ish years and I am absolutely positive that every single meal any of us have had in a restaurant is riskier from a food safety standpoint than repackaged DME. I have never witnessed in all those years any purposeful putting of bodily fluids on food or anything like that. Its just the simple fact that when your food arrives at least two people, usually more, have breathed on it and touched the plate and usually the food itself. If its a salad or other raw ingredient it has literally been in contact with animal feces, insects, mold spores, worms etc. etc. and merely been rinsed with water.
Now its perfectly reasonable to say our bodies are built to deal with this, and that the risk of eating these foods is still low enough and the benefit both in pleasure and the positives  nutrients and beneficial microbes consumed are worth it. Its also perfectly reasonable to say "you know what, I know that the repackaged dme will be completely harmless once boiled and not effect the end product one ioata, but it still sketches me out so I'm not using it."
But if the decision is based 100% on completely avoiding risk you would have to pick the beer made with dme you knew for a fact was spit in over the salad bar.

[rungdalek]

So much here. My only concern would be the the moisture issue, which would be obvious. I just don't see the problem comparted to other food packaging, in fact DME gets boiled so there is no problem.
Do you ever buy things from a grocery store deli? What about all the things in a store that they buy in bulk and sell as their store brand in plastic containers, many of them ready to eat salads and such. Have you ever eaten in a restaurant? Bought self serve bulk nuts, grains, flour etc. in a store? Do you eat vegetables?
Apart from the hundreds of examples of more problematic packaging than this I could go on with, I think you have misplaced confidence in the larger corporations. The U.S. has less and less food safety enforcement. I would have much more confidence that my LHBS would safely package DME than General Mills would scrupulously make sure there are less than X amount of mouse turds in your corn flakes.

Industrial processes aren't perfect but I would put more faith in an industrial/commercial DME packaging facility than an LHBS putting DME in a zip lock bag.

I guess I don't understand the hangup with DME vs any other food product or homebrewing product like hops or grain. I take it you would never go to a restaurant or get a take out sandwich?

Restaurants are controlled food preparation facilities, an LHBS is not.

I think you have a weird faith in restaurant workers and factories and a weird paranoia about lhbs employees intentionally trying to harm you.

Doesn't the FDA have certain rules/regulations when it comes to repackaging food products?

The whole restaurant argument... IDK those people are preparing food, not just giving you the raw ingredients and I tend to choose places where I can observer the workers.  I also don't do the whole online grocery shopping or the companies that will send you the ingredients to make your meals... yea I have a problem with that too, though those companies are probably more highly scrutinized and governed than an LHBS.

The grain argument has been covered.

So admittedly I won't be buying the zip lock bag of DME but will still purchase the OEM packaged products if available.

I think that these things are largely a matter of sensitivities and conditioning, not all of it conscious and much of it illogical. I am sure there are things that I avoid that are scientifically safer than other things I consume.
That being said I worked in foodservice for 25ish years and I am absolutely positive that every single meal any of us have had in a restaurant is riskier from a food safety standpoint than repackaged DME. I have never witnessed in all those years any purposeful putting of bodily fluids on food or anything like that. Its just the simple fact that when your food arrives at least two people, usually more, have breathed on it and touched the plate and usually the food itself. If its a salad or other raw ingredient it has literally been in contact with animal feces, insects, mold spores, worms etc. etc. and merely been rinsed with water.
Now its perfectly reasonable to say our bodies are built to deal with this, and that the risk of eating these foods is still low enough and the benefit both in pleasure and the positives  nutrients and beneficial microbes consumed are worth it. Its also perfectly reasonable to say "you know what, I know that the repackaged dme will be completely harmless once boiled and not effect the end product one ioata, but it still sketches me out so I'm not using it."
But if the decision is based 100% on completely avoiding risk you would have to pick the beer made with dme you knew for a fact was spit in over the salad bar.

Still sketches me out bro, so I'm not using it.  Something about that zip lock bag on a retailers shelf just seems so school lunch and unprofessional.  If it's costing them pennies on the dollar and it was 0.50 cents for the pound then I might get up the courage to try it but at the same cost or more than a professionally packaged product, no way.

[denny]

Are you brewing with DME or making maltec milkshakes? First example gets boiled, second does not.

Let me give you some of my DME, I'll be sure to cough on it, spit in it, pick my nose it, sneeze on it, you can brew with that and then I'll watch as you drink the beer.  That's cool if you're ok with that.

If you suspect them of that kind of behavior, why are you doing business with them at all?

[denny]

it takes all kinds. pheww

yeah

[pete b]

So much here. My only concern would be the the moisture issue, which would be obvious. I just don't see the problem comparted to other food packaging, in fact DME gets boiled so there is no problem.
Do you ever buy things from a grocery store deli? What about all the things in a store that they buy in bulk and sell as their store brand in plastic containers, many of them ready to eat salads and such. Have you ever eaten in a restaurant? Bought self serve bulk nuts, grains, flour etc. in a store? Do you eat vegetables?
Apart from the hundreds of examples of more problematic packaging than this I could go on with, I think you have misplaced confidence in the larger corporations. The U.S. has less and less food safety enforcement. I would have much more confidence that my LHBS would safely package DME than General Mills would scrupulously make sure there are less than X amount of mouse turds in your corn flakes.

Industrial processes aren't perfect but I would put more faith in an industrial/commercial DME packaging facility than an LHBS putting DME in a zip lock bag.

I guess I don't understand the hangup with DME vs any other food product or homebrewing product like hops or grain. I take it you would never go to a restaurant or get a take out sandwich?

Restaurants are controlled food preparation facilities, an LHBS is not.

I think you have a weird faith in restaurant workers and factories and a weird paranoia about lhbs employees intentionally trying to harm you.

Doesn't the FDA have certain rules/regulations when it comes to repackaging food products?

The whole restaurant argument... IDK those people are preparing food, not just giving you the raw ingredients and I tend to choose places where I can observer the workers.  I also don't do the whole online grocery shopping or the companies that will send you the ingredients to make your meals... yea I have a problem with that too, though those companies are probably more highly scrutinized and governed than an LHBS.

The grain argument has been covered.

So admittedly I won't be buying the zip lock bag of DME but will still purchase the OEM packaged products if available.

I think that these things are largely a matter of sensitivities and conditioning, not all of it conscious and much of it illogical. I am sure there are things that I avoid that are scientifically safer than other things I consume.
That being said I worked in foodservice for 25ish years and I am absolutely positive that every single meal any of us have had in a restaurant is riskier from a food safety standpoint than repackaged DME. I have never witnessed in all those years any purposeful putting of bodily fluids on food or anything like that. Its just the simple fact that when your food arrives at least two people, usually more, have breathed on it and touched the plate and usually the food itself. If its a salad or other raw ingredient it has literally been in contact with animal feces, insects, mold spores, worms etc. etc. and merely been rinsed with water.
Now its perfectly reasonable to say our bodies are built to deal with this, and that the risk of eating these foods is still low enough and the benefit both in pleasure and the positives  nutrients and beneficial microbes consumed are worth it. Its also perfectly reasonable to say "you know what, I know that the repackaged dme will be completely harmless once boiled and not effect the end product one ioata, but it still sketches me out so I'm not using it."
But if the decision is based 100% on completely avoiding risk you would have to pick the beer made with dme you knew for a fact was spit in over the salad bar.

Still sketches me out bro, so I'm not using it.  Something about that zip lock bag on a retailers shelf just seems so school lunch and unprofessional.  If it's costing them pennies on the dollar and it was 0.50 cents for the pound then I might get up the courage to try it but at the same cost or more than a professionally packaged product, no way.

Totally, don't use it. There's stuff that all of us avoid irrationally because of our reptilian brain. I would do the same.

[rungdalek]

Are you brewing with DME or making maltec milkshakes? First example gets boiled, second does not.

Let me give you some of my DME, I'll be sure to cough on it, spit in it, pick my nose it, sneeze on it, you can brew with that and then I'll watch as you drink the beer.  That's cool if you're ok with that.

If you suspect them of that kind of behavior, why are you doing business with them at all?

It's an example countering Hopfenundmalz trust in boiling, would you trust DME with any of those things done to it, that has been boiled?  Be my guest.

[fredthecat]

the average human eats 2lb of bugs per year.


i had a bag of pre-crushed grain i left for a month or so recently that i found had a live moth flying around in the bag.

i used it and just scraped off the top layer where the moth probably lived.


the beer tastes good.

[BrewBama]

There’s an acceptable level of maggots, thrips, insect fragments, "foreign matter", mold, rodent hairs, and insect and mammalian feces, etc allowed in most raw food products — especially grain. We consume it every day knowingly or not.

As an example, hops are allowed an average of more than 2,500 aphids per 10 grams.  Wheat flour averages 150 or more insect fragments per 100 grams.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Slowbrew]

Another angle to look at on this.  Probably not relevant but seemed like an interesting question when it popped in my head.

Why would you use Zip-Loc bags, which cost more than bulk heat sealed plastic bags?  In a rush to ship orders and out of packaged stock?  Suppliers out of rolls of plastic heat seal material?  Or a multitude of other reasons it may have made sense the day they sent you your DME.

Unless you have a really cheap source for good zippered plastic bags, I don't see why you would use them.

Either way we all have our irrational fears about all kinds of things.  No one can force us to put them aside so we work around them.

Prost!

Paul

[RC]

There’s an acceptable level of maggots, thrips, insect fragments, "foreign matter", mold, rodent hairs, and insect and mammalian feces, etc allowed in most raw food products — especially grain. We consume it every day knowingly or not.

maggots, thrips, insect fragments, rodent excrement, feces, larvae in our food...yup, that pretty much sums up 2020.

[denny]

Are you brewing with DME or making maltec milkshakes? First example gets boiled, second does not.

Let me give you some of my DME, I'll be sure to cough on it, spit in it, pick my nose it, sneeze on it, you can brew with that and then I'll watch as you drink the beer.  That's cool if you're ok with that.

If you suspect them of that kind of behavior, why are you doing business with them at all?

It's an example countering Hopfenundmalz trust in boiling, would you trust DME with any of those things done to it, that has been boiled?  Be my guest.

Yes, I would, totally.