[Iliff Ave]

Going for something in the best bitter range. I realize the base malt is not right. Could I get away with it? I also have no idea on a hop schedule. Never brew English beers...

76% pils
18% Munich 6L
3% biscuit
3% crystal 75

18g magnum 45 min
28g ekg 15 min
28g ekg 5 min

S-04

1.044
35 ibu
6.3 srm

I brew on a tight budget and use pils malt for everything. I’m hoping the biscuit malt would help get me a bit closer.

[BrewBama]

I’m kinda the same way but use American (2-row) Pale or Pale Ale as a base for almost everything. Just makes life easier.

My vote is: you’ll be fine for a Best Bitter.

Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.


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[santoch]

Yeah, it will be fine.
Yeast, hops, and character malts (in your case, the crystal and amber malts) drive the flavor more in that beer than the base malt will.
RDWHAHB

[pete b]

As to the malt my instinct says that maybe the amber malt is superfluous. Others may have direct experience but I guess I might try, as a substitute for a more traditional pale malt, 75% Pilsner, 20% Munich, 5% crystal. (Actually just noticed 120 c. Maybe back off a little)
I am assuming you are basing on malt on hand. If not and just being frugal vs maris otter or golden promise then I would go any pale malt vs Pilsner plus Munich.
Hops seem ok. S-04 is fine.
The one piece of info missing is gypsum, is that on your Radar?

[Iliff Ave]

As to the malt my instinct says that maybe the amber malt is superfluous. Others may have direct experience but I guess I might try, as a substitute for a more traditional pale malt, 75% Pilsner, 20% Munich, 5% crystal. (Actually just noticed 120 c. Maybe back off a little)
I am assuming you are basing on malt on hand. If not and just being frugal vs maris otter or golden promise then I would go any pale malt vs Pilsner plus Munich.
Hops seem ok. S-04 is fine.
The one piece of info missing is gypsum, is that on your Radar?

Thanks. Yes I adjust my water per batch. Any suggestions on ppm of SO4?

Also what would be a hop schedule you would recommend and with which hops? I will have to get hops regardless.

I really only have those specialty malts in there to get some color per guidelines. It works out to 4 oz of each.

I’m also open to a different dry yeast option

[erockrph]

There is no one right way to brew this style, and the recipe as written will make a good beer that is fairly representative of the style. For my taste preferences, I'd use Winsor or Winsor + Nottingham (depending on how dry you want it to finish) instead of the S04. Winsor is really the only dry yeast that has a characteristic English eater profile.

If you use 3 to 5% of Biscuit or Victory malt, then you can get a bit of that British pale ale malt character even though you're using Pils as the base.

A single hop is fine, and EKG and/or Styrian Goldings are always in my bitters. I like Challenger as a bittering hop, but you can get away with just about anything at 60 minutes. Also, dry hops aren't required, but they're something to consider.

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[Northern_Brewer]

Yeast, hops, and character malts (in your case, the crystal and amber malts) drive the flavor more in that beer than the base malt will.

As a Brit, I couldn't disagree more. I grew up in northern England with bitters that had little or no speciality malts, you can still make great bitter without them as long as your base malt is characterful enough.

More importantly, bitter is all about the balance between malt, hops, yeast, water and carbonation, and it's really easy to screw up that balance by overdoing the speciality malts.

Also pilsner tends to thin out beers, a traditional English malt gives you more body which you need for this kind of beer.

Any suggestions on ppm of SO4?

Also what would be a hop schedule you would recommend and with which hops? I will have to get hops regardless.

I really only have those specialty malts in there to get some color per guidelines. It works out to 4 oz of each.

I’m also open to a different dry yeast option

That's the classic mistake foreigners make with British beers - never try to hit a colour target using "flavour" ingredients. British brewers always adjust the colour with brewer's caramel or a tiny amount of black malt, so adjusting with flavour ingredients will end up with something that tastes wrong. And as you can see from pictures on Untappd, some of the greatest English bitters are really pretty pale.

USians tend to go too low on minerals, in general go for 2:1 sulphate:chloride and at least 200ppm sulphate for southern bitters, more than 250 for northern ones.

In British commercial brewing there's a lot of different hops get used and it's a great style for showing off different hops, so get too hung up on a particular variety. Saying that EKG is my favourite hop, and I would never argue against using it in bitter, it is the benchmark for the style. But the likes of Challenger and First Gold work well; whereas some people love Fuggles and others are not so keen - if this is your first bitter then I would probably avoid Fuggles to start with in case you're one of the people who don't like it, it's better in dark beers. But if you're on a budget and things like Savinjski Goldings or Willamette are cheaper than EKG, then it's OK to use them.

In general you need to start with the final ABV - the sweet spot is around 4.3% - and then work backwards. The attenuation on your yeast will tell you the OG you need to hit 4.3%, then use the BU:GU ratio to work out how much bittering you need. 31 IBU in 1.046 is a bit low, even for southern bitters which are typically around 0.75 BU:GU, and in the north you're looking at 0.8-0.9, so for my (northern) taste I'd be looking at more like 39 IBU in a 1.046 beer.

The bittering hops don't have to be British, you can use Magnum or something if that's convenient, on the other hand if (like here) your hops come in 100g packs then it can be convenient to use the whole pack in one brew, for bittering and late additions. Add the bittering at 60 min, some at 10 min, then I generally put a bit in the whirlpool and a generous amount as dry hops.

If you're restricted to dry yeasts (as opposed to eg harvesting yeast from a bottle of Fuller's 1845 or Lancer/IPA) then S-04 is OK, Windsor followed by Nottingham/Munton Gold at high krausen is traditionally about the best option but I'm hearing lots of good things about the new Lallemand Verdant for English styles so you could try that if you can find it. Even the Lallemand Voss fermented not too warm could be an option.

Even if proper English malts don't fit the budget, I would try to find at least a local pale malt rather than pilsner.

[Kevin]

If you look at the origins of Bitter you will see the grain bills are very simple. For over 100 years English breweries Tetley, Barclay Perkins, Whitbread, Truman and others sold bitter made with just a single malt...pale malt 2 row. Every once in a while they would throw in some #1 invert sugar. A blend of 2 row and 6 row was fairly common. ABV averaged ~5.5% to 6+% with some below 5% and occasionally over 7%.

Hops range from golding, fuggle and sometimes imported American and/or German hops.

[Iliff Ave]

Thanks all. Very helpful stuff. A lot to consider here.

I have edited the original recipe above but realize I’m going in the wrong direction with the base malt.

[dannyjed]

I think what you have will make a fine beer. IMO, what characterizes a British beer is British Malt. Maris Otter and Golden Promise definitely have a distinct character that is unique with base malts.


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[Northern_Brewer]

If you look at the origins of Bitter you will see the grain bills are very simple. For over 100 years English breweries Tetley, Barclay Perkins, Whitbread, Truman and others sold bitter made with just a single malt...pale malt 2 row. Every once in a while they would throw in some #1 invert sugar. A blend of 2 row and 6 row was fairly common. ABV averaged ~5.5% to 6+% with some below 5% and occasionally over 7%.

Hops range from golding, fuggle and sometimes imported American and/or German hops.

While it's true that such beers were created, and I know you mean well but talking about pre-WWI beers is not very helpful to someone looking to create what is now known as bitter - beers over 6% are just irrelevant. It's a bit like using pre-WWI ideas on IPA to advise someone wanting to make a NEIPA.

Bitter in the modern sense emerges after the gravity cuts of WWI - the addition of crystal malts is an attempt to restore some of the body lost by those gravity cuts, and also to try and recreate the traditional flavour of beer made with Chevallier as newer varieties of barley became widespread, that lacked the body and sweetness of Chevallier.

[pete b]

I have had great luck with 99% local pale malt and 1% black malt for flavor and color. And its probably more economical than pilsner plus a couple specialty malts.

[Iliff Ave]

I have had great luck with 99% local pale malt and 1% black malt for flavor and color. And its probably more economical than pilsner plus a couple specialty malts.

Economical is the key word. I have Pils and Munich on hand.

[hopfenundmalz]

Yeast, hops, and character malts (in your case, the crystal and amber malts) drive the flavor more in that beer than the base malt will.

As a Brit, I couldn't disagree more. I grew up in northern England with bitters that had little or no speciality malts, you can still make great bitter without them as long as your base malt is characterful enough.

More importantly, bitter is all about the balance between malt, hops, yeast, water and carbonation, and it's really easy to screw up that balance by overdoing the speciality malts.

Also pilsner tends to thin out beers, a traditional English malt gives you more body which you need for this kind of beer.

Any suggestions on ppm of SO4?

Also what would be a hop schedule you would recommend and with which hops? I will have to get hops regardless.

I really only have those specialty malts in there to get some color per guidelines. It works out to 4 oz of each.

I’m also open to a different dry yeast option

That's the classic mistake foreigners make with British beers - never try to hit a colour target using "flavour" ingredients. British brewers always adjust the colour with brewer's caramel or a tiny amount of black malt, so adjusting with flavour ingredients will end up with something that tastes wrong. And as you can see from pictures on Untappd, some of the greatest English bitters are really pretty pale.

USians tend to go too low on minerals, in general go for 2:1 sulphate:chloride and at least 200ppm sulphate for southern bitters, more than 250 for northern ones.

In British commercial brewing there's a lot of different hops get used and it's a great style for showing off different hops, so get too hung up on a particular variety. Saying that EKG is my favourite hop, and I would never argue against using it in bitter, it is the benchmark for the style. But the likes of Challenger and First Gold work well; whereas some people love Fuggles and others are not so keen - if this is your first bitter then I would probably avoid Fuggles to start with in case you're one of the people who don't like it, it's better in dark beers. But if you're on a budget and things like Savinjski Goldings or Willamette are cheaper than EKG, then it's OK to use them.

In general you need to start with the final ABV - the sweet spot is around 4.3% - and then work backwards. The attenuation on your yeast will tell you the OG you need to hit 4.3%, then use the BU:GU ratio to work out how much bittering you need. 31 IBU in 1.046 is a bit low, even for southern bitters which are typically around 0.75 BU:GU, and in the north you're looking at 0.8-0.9, so for my (northern) taste I'd be looking at more like 39 IBU in a 1.046 beer.

The bittering hops don't have to be British, you can use Magnum or something if that's convenient, on the other hand if (like here) your hops come in 100g packs then it can be convenient to use the whole pack in one brew, for bittering and late additions. Add the bittering at 60 min, some at 10 min, then I generally put a bit in the whirlpool and a generous amount as dry hops.

If you're restricted to dry yeasts (as opposed to eg harvesting yeast from a bottle of Fuller's 1845 or Lancer/IPA) then S-04 is OK, Windsor followed by Nottingham/Munton Gold at high krausen is traditionally about the best option but I'm hearing lots of good things about the new Lallemand Verdant for English styles so you could try that if you can find it. Even the Lallemand Voss fermented not too warm could be an option.

Even if proper English malts don't fit the budget, I would try to find at least a local pale malt rather than pilsner.

Some advice specific to Bitter. I've long been of the opinion that Evey ingredient has to work with the others to get the flavor of a authentic bitter.

I've got a bag of Crisp MO, some Imperial Pub Ale, and EKG, need to make some invert #1, add Gypsum and CaCl2. See where I end up.

[Kevin]

If you look at the origins of Bitter you will see the grain bills are very simple. For over 100 years English breweries Tetley, Barclay Perkins, Whitbread, Truman and others sold bitter made with just a single malt...pale malt 2 row. Every once in a while they would throw in some #1 invert sugar. A blend of 2 row and 6 row was fairly common. ABV averaged ~5.5% to 6+% with some below 5% and occasionally over 7%.

Hops range from golding, fuggle and sometimes imported American and/or German hops.

While it's true that such beers were created, and I know you mean well but talking about pre-WWI beers is not very helpful to someone looking to create what is now known as bitter - beers over 6% are just irrelevant. It's a bit like using pre-WWI ideas on IPA to advise someone wanting to make a NEIPA.

Bitter in the modern sense emerges after the gravity cuts of WWI - the addition of crystal malts is an attempt to restore some of the body lost by those gravity cuts, and also to try and recreate the traditional flavour of beer made with Chevallier as newer varieties of barley became widespread, that lacked the body and sweetness of Chevallier.

I was simply trying to lend some background information. Was any of it wrong? Why do you feel the need... and you make a habit of it...to show off like this? I have seen you do this multiple times to posters at Homebrew Talk. When making my response I got a notification when I clicked "post" that someone had posted while I was typing. Had I checked to see what the post was and who it was made by I would deleted my reply knowing your reputation. You may not know it but you are somewhat of a forum bully.