[RC]

unrelated anecdote i guess is that in east asia in almost all circumstances i was poured draught, the glass was considered full when the head was anywhere between 95 to 99% to the top of the glass, even if the top 20% of the glass was head. it was ridiculous sometimes, but it was cheap enough that it didnt bother me too much.

Don't go to Germany then, because the pour into a mas is usually half foam!

[RC]

I do see many bartenders pouring very foamy beer and pouring lots foam into the drain to make a full glass of beer. I never think the beer tastes over carbonated, but I do wonder how much beer they are wasting.

A lot of breweries struggle with getting Co2 right if they don't know how to check the stone whetting pressure or don't have a way to measure Co2 (such as a Zahm). Bartenders get used to just pouring off the foam. You are right, it's a big waste.

Of course, there's also the issue that some bartenders don't really care how much beer they waste since it isn't their money.

Beertenders are just actors. It's a performance, so that you tip them more. They actually hate their customers (hoo boy, trust me on that). But they put on a good show, and are nice to you so that you feel important...so that you tip them more. It's all performative.

I loathe beertenders because 1) I know how fake they are; 2) they know far less than me about beer, but they pretend to know, and think they know, everything about it--and also they hate you if you try to talk to them about beer because they think you are simply trying to show them up; and 3) they make waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more money than anyone on the brewing staff. I don't think anyone outside the industry realizes that vapid, uneducated people doing nothing more than pulling a handle to fill a glass can make close to upward of $60-80k a year.

Granted, it's stressful to pull a handle and fill a glass. I get it. And wiping a counter/table with a rag takes pretty much everything ya got.

You are so correct about the whetting pressure thing. Where I worked, we'd simply put our ear to the FV and listen for just the right volume of hisssssssss as we turned on the gas. And then a Zahm-check when it tasted right. Kegs were behind a wall from the taproom and literally just a couple of feet from the taps, so we didn't have to worry much about balancing the lines.

[fredthecat]

Beertenders are just actors. It's a performance, so that you tip them more. They actually hate their customers (hoo boy, trust me on that). But they put on a good show, and are nice to you so that you feel important...so that you tip them more. It's all performative.

I loathe beertenders because 1) I know how fake they are; 2) they know far less than me about beer, but they pretend to know, and think they know, everything about it--and also they hate you if you try to talk to them about beer because they think you are simply trying to show them up; and 3) they make waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more money than anyone on the brewing staff. I don't think anyone outside the industry realizes that vapid, uneducated people doing nothing more than pulling a handle to fill a glass can make close to upward of $60-80k a year.

Granted, it's stressful to pull a handle and fill a glass. I get it. And wiping a counter/table with a rag takes pretty much everything ya got.

You are so correct about the whetting pressure thing. Where I worked, we'd simply put our ear to the FV and listen for just the right volume of hisssssssss as we turned on the gas. And then a Zahm-check when it tasted right. Kegs were behind a wall from the taproom and literally just a couple of feet from the taps, so we didn't have to worry much about balancing the lines.

love it. not just that, but to get a cushy position like bartender rather than dishwasher or kitchen, there is generally a requirement that they be aesthetically pleasing individuals as well.

tbh i left that bar and went to a dive and got a pint of 50, which felt far more appropriate. that one tasted like dirty lines, but it felt like a bar. and i got a bigboy sized pint rather than "a 13 oz pour"

[RC]

Beertenders are just actors. It's a performance, so that you tip them more. They actually hate their customers (hoo boy, trust me on that). But they put on a good show, and are nice to you so that you feel important...so that you tip them more. It's all performative.

I loathe beertenders because 1) I know how fake they are; 2) they know far less than me about beer, but they pretend to know, and think they know, everything about it--and also they hate you if you try to talk to them about beer because they think you are simply trying to show them up; and 3) they make waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more money than anyone on the brewing staff. I don't think anyone outside the industry realizes that vapid, uneducated people doing nothing more than pulling a handle to fill a glass can make close to upward of $60-80k a year.

Granted, it's stressful to pull a handle and fill a glass. I get it. And wiping a counter/table with a rag takes pretty much everything ya got.

You are so correct about the whetting pressure thing. Where I worked, we'd simply put our ear to the FV and listen for just the right volume of hisssssssss as we turned on the gas. And then a Zahm-check when it tasted right. Kegs were behind a wall from the taproom and literally just a couple of feet from the taps, so we didn't have to worry much about balancing the lines.

love it. not just that, but to get a cushy position like bartender rather than dishwasher or kitchen, there is generally a requirement that they be aesthetically pleasing individuals as well.

tbh i left that bar and went to a dive and got a pint of 50, which felt far more appropriate. that one tasted like dirty lines, but it felt like a bar. and i got a bigboy sized pint rather than "a 13 oz pour"

To be fair, I should also add that beertenders often have to press buttons on a screen and, sometimes, have to keep track of small items (e.g. credit cards, the space between their ears). These people have an insanely simple job that pays them insanely well. Just don't ask them about the off-flavor in your beer.

[KellerBrauer]

Beertenders are just actors. It's a performance, so that you tip them more. They actually hate their customers (hoo boy, trust me on that). But they put on a good show, and are nice to you so that you feel important...so that you tip them more. It's all performative.

I loathe beertenders because 1) I know how fake they are; 2) they know far less than me about beer, but they pretend to know, and think they know, everything about it--and also they hate you if you try to talk to them about beer because they think you are simply trying to show them up; and 3) they make waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more money than anyone on the brewing staff. I don't think anyone outside the industry realizes that vapid, uneducated people doing nothing more than pulling a handle to fill a glass can make close to upward of $60-80k a year.

Granted, it's stressful to pull a handle and fill a glass. I get it. And wiping a counter/table with a rag takes pretty much everything ya got.

You are so correct about the whetting pressure thing. Where I worked, we'd simply put our ear to the FV and listen for just the right volume of hisssssssss as we turned on the gas. And then a Zahm-check when it tasted right. Kegs were behind a wall from the taproom and literally just a couple of feet from the taps, so we didn't have to worry much about balancing the lines.

I’m not quite as cynical as you are.  I appreciate all the restaurant and bar servers who come to work every day and strive to put a smile on their face even when they’re confronted with customers who have absolutely no respect for them or the service they provide and, as such, I tip them handsomely.

[narvin]

Love all the places that have self serve beer walls now.  Although the beer still might not be carbonated correctly, I can at least pour as little or much as I want, how I want.

[jeffy]

Love all the places that have self serve beer walls now.  Although the beer still might not be carbonated correctly, I can at least pour as little or much as I want, how I want.

I am not a fan of those places.  How can I be sure that it is accurate or that I am paying for foam?

[MDixon]

Love all the places that have self serve beer walls now.  Although the beer still might not be carbonated correctly, I can at least pour as little or much as I want, how I want.

I am not a fan of those places.  How can I be sure that it is accurate or that I am paying for foam?

Agree. The only time they make sense to me is if you want to taste several beers without committing to a full pint.

[RC]

Beertenders are just actors. It's a performance, so that you tip them more. They actually hate their customers (hoo boy, trust me on that). But they put on a good show, and are nice to you so that you feel important...so that you tip them more. It's all performative.

I loathe beertenders because 1) I know how fake they are; 2) they know far less than me about beer, but they pretend to know, and think they know, everything about it--and also they hate you if you try to talk to them about beer because they think you are simply trying to show them up; and 3) they make waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more money than anyone on the brewing staff. I don't think anyone outside the industry realizes that vapid, uneducated people doing nothing more than pulling a handle to fill a glass can make close to upward of $60-80k a year.

Granted, it's stressful to pull a handle and fill a glass. I get it. And wiping a counter/table with a rag takes pretty much everything ya got.

You are so correct about the whetting pressure thing. Where I worked, we'd simply put our ear to the FV and listen for just the right volume of hisssssssss as we turned on the gas. And then a Zahm-check when it tasted right. Kegs were behind a wall from the taproom and literally just a couple of feet from the taps, so we didn't have to worry much about balancing the lines.

...the service they provide...

What service do they provide, exactly? Pulling a handle, filling a glass, and then handing it to me? Why do I need a human to do this? And why am I expected to pay an extra dollar or two for it? The "service" is nothing more than getting a glass filled and handed to you. What you tip on is the intangible, i.e. how nice and cheery and welcoming the server was to you--the performance, in other words.

In Oregon and new Jersey it is illegal to pump your own gas. An attendant has to do it for you. Regardless of why this law came about in the first place, nowadays it's simply a job creation/preservation thing that everyone finds totally ridiculous. How is the beertending model any different? I am hugely in favor of the self-serve model of pouring beer. I would gladly pay more per pint for a wall of tap handles I can pull myself.

[allenhuerta]

So aggressive towards the service workers in here now. This thread got wild.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[majorvices]

Don't forget they collect money for the establishment as well. we need our bar tenders at tap rooms. I personally feel the "pour your own" thing is a gimmick. I guess for the guy or gal who has never pulled a tap before it is fun?

[denny]

So aggressive towards the service workers in here now. This thread got wild.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Agreed.  So much opinion, so little knowledge.

[tommymorris]

Don't forget they collect money for the establishment as well. we need our bar tenders at tap rooms. I personally feel the "pour your own" thing is a gimmick. I guess for the guy or gal who has never pulled a tap before it is fun?

I think that is a gimmick, too. If you don’t know to open the tap all the way, many people don’t, you would be pouring yourself a lot of foam.

I like the standard bar with bartenders. I guess I like the “performance” too.

[fredthecat]

Beertenders are just actors. It's a performance, so that you tip them more. They actually hate their customers (hoo boy, trust me on that). But they put on a good show, and are nice to you so that you feel important...so that you tip them more. It's all performative.

I loathe beertenders because 1) I know how fake they are; 2) they know far less than me about beer, but they pretend to know, and think they know, everything about it--and also they hate you if you try to talk to them about beer because they think you are simply trying to show them up; and 3) they make waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more money than anyone on the brewing staff. I don't think anyone outside the industry realizes that vapid, uneducated people doing nothing more than pulling a handle to fill a glass can make close to upward of $60-80k a year.

Granted, it's stressful to pull a handle and fill a glass. I get it. And wiping a counter/table with a rag takes pretty much everything ya got.

You are so correct about the whetting pressure thing. Where I worked, we'd simply put our ear to the FV and listen for just the right volume of hisssssssss as we turned on the gas. And then a Zahm-check when it tasted right. Kegs were behind a wall from the taproom and literally just a couple of feet from the taps, so we didn't have to worry much about balancing the lines.

...the service they provide...

What service do they provide, exactly? Pulling a handle, filling a glass, and then handing it to me? Why do I need a human to do this? And why am I expected to pay an extra dollar or two for it? The "service" is nothing more than getting a glass filled and handed to you. What you tip on is the intangible, i.e. how nice and cheery and welcoming the server was to you--the performance, in other words.

In Oregon and new Jersey it is illegal to pump your own gas. An attendant has to do it for you. Regardless of why this law came about in the first place, nowadays it's simply a job creation/preservation thing that everyone finds totally ridiculous. How is the beertending model any different? I am hugely in favor of the self-serve model of pouring beer. I would gladly pay more per pint for a wall of tap handles I can pull myself.

putting these people on a pedestal (in canada there is no reduced minimum wage for jobs that are assumed to make significant tips, so its even crazier when you realize these oh-so heroic service workers are pulling 30 to 50 dollars an hour) only happens in north america afaik. in most countries its simply the role of someone doing several tasks, cleaning, etc.

again, consider your privilege if you had one of these sweet up front jobs where people are dropping fat tips on you. i was never pretty enough or just "likeable" enough to get these kind of jobs. i was in the back doing the s*** jobs, but i wont ever get any respect for my service. you wouldnt like the look of me.


i don't tip and frankly i love seeing their stupid faux-cheerful facade disappear at the moment i leave without tipping. every time.

[narvin]

Love all the places that have self serve beer walls now.  Although the beer still might not be carbonated correctly, I can at least pour as little or much as I want, how I want.

I am not a fan of those places.  How can I be sure that it is accurate or that I am paying for foam?

I never know what I'm going to get for a fixed price either.  At least this way I can stop when I want to.