[Megary]

Your base recipe looks very good.  I would reverse the amounts on the Crystal malt and the brown malts.  Also, a friend of mine uses up to 33% brown malt and I love that beer.  If you want to avoid roasty, stick with less than 20% brown malt, but otherwise don't be afraid to use a pretty good amount.

Interesting take on the Brown Malt.  I've been using Crisp's Brown Malt and I like it a lot.  Funny that they recommend its usage as "Up to 5%".  I thought I WAS pushing it at 8!
https://crispmalt.com/malts/brown-malt/

I think I will revise a bit and push the Brown even further, at the expense of some crystal.

[BrewBama]

Just a data point; in his book British Real Ale, Graham Wheeler lists Fuller’s London Porter as:

76.1% Pale
12% Brown Malt
9.9% Crystal
2% Chocolate Malt

I'm sure this guy knows his stuff, but recipes like that always drive me crazy.  What Crystal?  What Chocolate?   
Gives me hope that I am closing in, however.

That's the best you'll get from Wheeler.

+1. He leaves it to the brewer to decide.

Dark crystal gives dark dried fruit flavors to me so I wouldn’t use it in a Porter. I’d shoot for mid color for the toffee or caramel flavors (55-ish).

I like Crisp or Baird’s Chocolate.

[tommymorris]

My porters come in around 21 SRM. That aren’t black, but they also aren’t overly roasty. I like to think a Porter would want a more poundable beer after a long day of work. I certainly do.

[Megary]

SRM - 25
ABV - 5%

74% Maris Otter
11% Medium British Crystal (≈55-60L)
8% Crisp Brown
8% Pale Chocolate (220L)
(Other grains on hand that might be useful: 10L Munich, 20L Munich, Victory, Torrified Wheat, Flaked Oats and Flaked Barley)

≈ 30 IBU's (I have Pilgrim or Magnum on hand)

WY1028 (Already purchased and unfortunately there's no going back here)

The slightly adjusted recipe based on some of the comments posted here.  Hopefully will brew it this weekend.

SRM - 25
ABV - 5.2%

70% Maris Otter
14% Crisp Brown
9% Medium British Crystal (≈55-60L)
7% Pale Chocolate (220L)

≈ 25 IBU's Pilgrim at 60
≈ 5 IBU's Pilgrim at 5

WY1028

Mash for 60 minutes @ 152°

Na - 75
Cl - 90
SO4 - 40
Mash pH - 5.5

[denny]

You guys really should check out the Durden Park Beer Circle recipes...

https://durdenparkbeer.org.uk/index.php/recipes/

[Megary]

You guys really should check out the Durden Park Beer Circle recipes...

https://durdenparkbeer.org.uk/index.php/recipes/

Thanks for that.  Fun little website.

Have you tried either of the Porter recipes?  They look intriguing but without any tasting notes...hard to say if either will help me get what I'm after.  I'm not looking to recreate the past, just simply trying to hit that Goal in post #1.

[denny]

You guys really should check out the Durden Park Beer Circle recipes...

https://durdenparkbeer.org.uk/index.php/recipes/

Thanks for that.  Fun little website.

Have you tried either of the Porter recipes?  They look intriguing but without any tasting notes...hard to say if either will help me get what I'm after.  I'm not looking to recreate the past, just simply trying to hit that Goal in post #1.

No, I haven't tried them.  But Durden Park has been acknowledged as having great info for as long as I've been brewing.

[Megary]

SRM - 25
ABV - 5.2%

70% Maris Otter
14% Crisp Brown
9% Medium British Crystal (≈55-60L)
7% Pale Chocolate (220L)

≈ 25 IBU's Pilgrim at 60
≈ 5 IBU's Pilgrim at 5

WY1028

Mash for 60 minutes @ 152°

Na - 75
Cl - 90
SO4 - 40
Mash pH - 5.5

So I brewed that last weekend as written with the exception of an additional 3oz of Victory that I had left and had no plans for.  A little housecleaning.

My goal was to have flavors along the cookie-biscuit-caramel-toffee-chocolate spectrum and by a cooled, post-boil sample I would say I'm more cookie-biscuit-caramel-toffee-chocolate range.  Passed a sample taste to the wife who has a much better palate than I do and her first reaction was, "Chocolate!".  We shall see what the fermentation decides to do with it...

...which, as an aside, was an interesting twist to the brew session.  I took a reasonably fresh (7/22/23), very flat pack of 1028 out of the fridge before I started heating my water, smacked the pack and let it warm up for the next 4+ hours.  The pack barely swelled at all during this time, I mean only a smidge.  Hmm.  Having been burned once before I was a little hesitant - but also having no other reasonable options in stock, I pitched the yeast anyway.  Pitched at 65° and it fell to 62° (within the 60-72° range) and I had no activity after 18-20 hours.  OK.  RDWHAHB.  I moved the fermenter to 67° ambient and finally saw the most disinterested signs of life from 1028 after 30 hours.  Now, at 48 hours I have a nice, thick krausen and steady air-lock activity.  Last time I used 1028 (in a Brown Ale) I had clear signs of life in about 12-15 hours, so this was a bit concerning and I'm just thankful I didn't have to make my first English Porter with Mexican lager yeast!   

[Megary]

In the end this turned out to be a rather decent English Porter, but nothing spectacular.  It drinks fine, nice aroma, bitterness is in line, color is plenty dark enough, foam is good (though head retention is a little disappointing). 

The chocolate is still present but it's starting to lean a bit too roasty for me, too Stout-like.  Again.  I'm finding it a bit annoying that I can't seem to land in that caramel-toffee-chocolate range I was hoping for, always ending up with too much roast.  And 1028, while fine, did not leave the body and mouthfeel I was hoping for.  I'll give a little love to Pilgrim however, a nice herbal presence without that characteristic English earthy thing.  I would like to try these hops in a Mild where they might be able to shine a bit more.

So while I'll happily drink this beer, I will do so knowing I missed my mark yet again.  My white whale.

Back to the drawing board.

[dmtaylor]

Hmm.  Well, I guess you're going to have to go the route of Pete's Wicked Ale, and use 20-25% medium to dark crystal malts, with only a couple ounces of dark malt(s) as needed for hints of flavor and color adjustment.  This might sound like a lot of crystal, but it works, if you are going for a good detectable amount of caramel/toffee.

[Megary]

Hmm.  Well, I guess you're going to have to go the route of Pete's Wicked Ale, and use 20-25% medium to dark crystal malts, with only a couple ounces of dark malt(s) as needed for hints of flavor and color adjustment.  This might sound like a lot of crystal, but it works, if you are going for a good detectable amount of caramel/toffee.

Yeah, I'm a bit stumped.

I do think the grain bill is the biggest culprit.  I guess I pushed the Brown Malt too far.  Up the crystal, I agree.  But some Munich would have helped as well.  Torrified Wheat might be a nice addition.

I also need a yeast that will leave some mouthfeel, some body.  Why I used 1028 here, I have no idea.  But next go will definitely be with one of Windsor, 1450 or 1968.  Maybe S-04 if I can work myself up to try it again.

Plenty of time to think about it.  I won't make another Porter for 6 months.  I'll nail it next time!

I do appreciate all of the suggestions, everyone.

[fredthecat]

The chocolate is still present but it's starting to lean a bit too roasty for me, too Stout-like.  Again.  I'm finding it a bit annoying that I can't seem to land in that caramel-toffee-chocolate range I was hoping for, always ending up with too much roast.  And 1028, while fine, did not leave the body and mouthfeel I was hoping for. 

imho to get this in the most in your face way with malt would be 2-4% english chocolate malt in the 400 to 475 lovibond range, 5-9% pale chocolate malt and then some mix of 2-4% 90-120L crystal malt and maybe 7-10% crystal in the 40-60lov range.

from brown malt i definitely get this coffee, elements of well toasted bread around that area with a kind of hard brusqueness to it. i know this thread had a lot of recommendations but this is me saying this after slowly going through a very successful imp chocolate stout that was 100% in your face dark chocolate. gave some to coworkers and they generally loved it and immediately said chocolate, one was surprised when i said it was all barley.

[Megary]

The chocolate is still present but it's starting to lean a bit too roasty for me, too Stout-like.  Again.  I'm finding it a bit annoying that I can't seem to land in that caramel-toffee-chocolate range I was hoping for, always ending up with too much roast.  And 1028, while fine, did not leave the body and mouthfeel I was hoping for. 

imho to get this in the most in your face way with malt would be 2-4% english chocolate malt in the 400 to 475 lovibond range, 5-9% pale chocolate malt and then some mix of 2-4% 90-120L crystal malt and maybe 7-10% crystal in the 40-60lov range.

from brown malt i definitely get this coffee, elements of well toasted bread around that area with a kind of hard brusqueness to it. i know this thread had a lot of recommendations but this is me saying this after slowly going through a very successful imp chocolate stout that was 100% in your face dark chocolate. gave some to coworkers and they generally loved it and immediately said chocolate, one was surprised when i said it was all barley.

I appreciate that and notes have been taken.  Next time I give this a go I will be checking my pride at the door.

Given (certainly debatable) a malt flavor progression of…
Caramel
Toffee
Raisin
Toast
Nutty
Mocha
Chocolate
Coffee
Roasted
Ashy

…I can’t seem to bring in chocolate without going past it - like the beer I just made which has clear chocolate notes but also coffee and roast.  It’s a blur between a Stout and a Porter (as I define them) and I’m struggling to separate them.  Seems when I try to ease off I go too far the other way and make a nice Brown Ale.   

[fredthecat]

might also try different yeast choices too. ill say i used bry97 and i felt like the malts pretty clearly came through, i didnt plan on getting any esters, just wanted clean ale

[jeffy]

Maybe you could try a small amount of cocoa nibs, just enough for the chocolate flavor but not enough to identify the source?