[redrocker652002]

My brother has grown an interest in Pilsner style beers. I want to try and branch out as I like them too once in a while. My biggest question is do they have to be fermented cooler like lagers? I don't have that option as of right now, so I am just curious as to what can be done in the mid 60's to low 70's?

[domanah]

Do a pseudo pilsner... use a ckean fermenting yeast and ferment at ale temperatures. Something like Kveik Oslo.

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[denny]

Personally, I've never had a kveik "lager" that I thought was lager like.  Not that they don't exist...maybe

Yes, you can use 34/70, Diamond, or Novalager at those temps.  I always preferred WY1007 for psuedo lagers.  Do what you can to keep it as cool as possible.  I used to put the fermenter in a big plastic bucket full of water and add ice packs to keep it cool. It will help if you can lager afterwards by keeping bottles as cold as possible after carbonation.

[MDL]

Having used 34/70, Diamond and Novalager I think Novalager will get you closest at those warmer temps. It is a very clean and definitely lager like, more so than a cool fermented clean ale yeast.

[BrewBama]

I recently used NovaLager at 62°F +/- 2° and am very pleased with the outcome. It started fast, fermented vigorously, and finished quickly. It did take a little while to clear but it did clear on its own resulting in a nice clean lager.

[Kevin]

I recently watched a presentation from John Palmer on making pilsner and American adjunct lager. If you can get your pitching temperature to the mid 50°F you will be half way there.

John said the key to making good pilsner lagers is pitching rate and maturation. He suggested pitching at 55°F and letting the temperature ramp up to around 60°F. That should be doable with a swamp cooler.

Even though Denny says he hasn't had a Kveik lager that he likes doesn't mean you shouldn't try them. Kveik Oslo works well in the 80°F range and produces a crisp and clean beer. Just follow the rest of Palmer's keys for best results. If it's a choice between not making a lager at all because your temps are too high or experimenting with a non traditional yeast, I say go for it with whatever tools at your disposal. The worst that can happen is you get a good beer that doesn't quite meet the style.

[denny]

I recently watched a presentation from John Palmer on making pilsner and American adjunct lager. If you can get your pitching temperature to the mid 50°F you will be half way there.

John said the key to making good pilsner lagers is pitching rate and maturation. He suggested pitching at 55°F and letting the temperature ramp up to around 60°F. That should be doable with a swamp cooler.

Even though Denny says he hasn't had a Kveik lager that he likes doesn't mean you shouldn't try them. Kveik Oslo works well in the 80°F range and produces a crisp and clean beer. Just follow the rest of Palmer's keys for best results. If it's a choice between not making a lager at all because your temps are too high or experimenting with a non traditional yeast, I say go for it with whatever tools at your disposal. The worst that can happen is you get a good beer that doesn't quite meet the style.

Don't forget there's a middle ground between cold lager fermentation and hot kveik fermentation. WY1007, for instance, makes great pseudo lagers at normal ale temps.

[redrocker652002]

Great info folks.  Thank you so much.  I now know it is possible and will probably do one in the next few weeks.  I have a single hop Chinook I am going to try and have to finish fermenting my Mosaic Pale and get it either kegged or bottled.  Either way, I will have a bucket at the ready in about 2 or 3 weeks.  I am very happy I asked, because I honestly thought that style was out of my reach without a fermenting chamber to get my temps down low.

[erockrph]

I recently used NovaLager at 62°F +/- 2° and am very pleased with the outcome. It started fast, fermented vigorously, and finished quickly. It did take a little while to clear but it did clear on its own resulting in a nice clean lager.

No apple esters? I've been holding out on Novalager because I pressure ferment lagers in the low/mid 60's, and Lallemand mentioned that it can develop some red apple at warmer temps.

I prefer using lager yeast at low ale temp range than clean ale yeasts when brewing a lager under warmer fermentation temperatures. I prefer Diamond but I haven't pushed the temps higher than low 60's with it. W34/70 works just fine to at least 68F and probably even higher.

Also, Lutra Kviek makes a good Pilsner style beer, but it still needs several weeks of lagering time at cold temperatures to clear up. Because of that, I decided that you might as well just use 34/70 or Diamond in the first place.

[BrewBama]

Now remember, half the crap judges put on scoresheets I don’t taste. So, me saying it’s a nice clean yeast has to be taken in that context.

[Megary]

I recently watched a presentation from John Palmer on making pilsner and American adjunct lager. If you can get your pitching temperature to the mid 50°F you will be half way there.

John said the key to making good pilsner lagers is pitching rate and maturation. He suggested pitching at 55°F and letting the temperature ramp up to around 60°F. That should be doable with a swamp cooler.

Even though Denny says he hasn't had a Kveik lager that he likes doesn't mean you shouldn't try them. Kveik Oslo works well in the 80°F range and produces a crisp and clean beer. Just follow the rest of Palmer's keys for best results. If it's a choice between not making a lager at all because your temps are too high or experimenting with a non traditional yeast, I say go for it with whatever tools at your disposal. The worst that can happen is you get a good beer that doesn't quite meet the style.

Don't forget there's a middle ground between cold lager fermentation and hot kveik fermentation. WY1007, for instance, makes great pseudo lagers at normal ale temps.

WLP080, pitched cold, fermented in the mid 60’s, gave me the best lager I’ve ever made. Technically it was a Cream Ale.  Not much difference.  Maybe I was lucky.

[MDL]

I ran my helles recipe with nova pitched at 50F. Was slow to start so let it free rise to 55. Finished up at 1.009 by day 7. Super clean so far. Will report back after a few weeks lagering.

[tommymorris]

I have made two beers with Novalager.

Brooklyn Lager tribute- this beer is excellent. Crystal clear at 2 weeks in the keg. Crisp and lager like. Very good amber lager- caramel malty flavor with medium-low Edelweiss and Cascade hop flavors. Fermented at 58F.

Ken’s Czech- this beer has been in the keg for 3 days. It tasted great at kegging and I just took a sample. Very nice Munich malty flavors with Saaz coming through in the finish. The beer is flat. It was cloudy going into the keg, but after three days it is much more clear. No judgement on crispness but I think it will be fine given the experience on batch one above. Fermented at 55F.

Both beers fermented quickly. They were easily kegable after 7 days.

No noticeable diacetyl or sulfur.

I still have the slurry and will make one more beer. Not sure what yet.

[redrocker652002]

Thanks all.  Anybody care to share recipes?  I am interested in the Helles too as I had one of those and it was really light and good.  Could see that being a summer drink for sure. 

[erockrph]

Here's my basic Pilsner recipe. I brew 3 gallon batches, so I'll leave out the quantities and you can adjust for your system

Malt bill (adjust quantities to end up with an OG ~1.048):
5 parts Pilsner malt
1 part Munich malt

Hops:
Saaz, Tettnang, or Hallertau Mittelfruh at 60 minutes for ~35 IBU
1/2oz-1oz (per 5 gallons) of the same hop at flameout
(I will use Motueka or Sterling instead of the hops above if I want something less traditional with a hint of citrus)

Yeast:
WY2278 if my schedule allows for ordering liquid yeast, otherwise Diamond or W34/70