[fredthecat]

hey, i love aventinus and ive been in love with it since i first tasted it a long time ago.

i dont want A weizenbock recipe, and googling aventinus clone recipes results in suggestions all over the board.

there is just such a powerful malty, deep-dark fruity complexity to it while it coasts so-carefully along the edge of balance and liveliness.

imho it is one of the great underrated classics that blows all other weizenbocks out of the water.

im less concerned with authentic brewery recipe coping than with hitting the same tasting results. candi-sugar, dextrose? what crystal/cara-munich malts? grists?? i have some ideas, but i want to hear your opinions.

[huckdavidson]

Whatever you come up with a small amount of oxidation will help.

[denny]

Whatever you come up with a small amount of oxidation will help.

Agreed. It's not always a bad thing.

[huckdavidson]

There are many suggestions on the German homebrewing forum:

https://hobbybrauer.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=123905&hilit=aventinus+recipe#p123905

With this recipe being somewhat popular:

https://www.maischemalzundmehr.de/index.php?id=179&inhaltmitte=recipe

The most popular homebrew clones seem to have no crystal malts or sugars but some contain smoked malt which is most likely not used in the commercial beer.

Having said that I would probably start with:

55% Dark Wheat Malt
25% Munich Malt II
15% Vienna Malt
5% Chocolate Malt (320-400L)

If anything the Vienna could be replaced by Pilsner or Pale - OR - left out completely and the amount of Munich and chocolate malt increased to make up the difference.

High wheat content grain bills can give lautering issues so rice hulls and a step mash are necessary or perhaps BIAB.

A decoction would be appropriate if you have the equipment.

Temperature steps would be along the lines of:

95F - 15 min
113F - 10 min
122F - 10 min
147F - 30 min
162F - 20 min
172F - 10 min

[denny]

There are many suggestions on the German homebrewing forum:

https://hobbybrauer.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=123905&hilit=aventinus+recipe#p123905

With this recipe being somewhat popular:

https://www.maischemalzundmehr.de/index.php?id=179&inhaltmitte=recipe

The most popular homebrew clones seem to have no crystal malts or sugars but some contain smoked malt which is most likely not used in the commercial beer.

Having said that I would probably start with:

55% Dark Wheat Malt
25% Munich Malt II
15% Vienna Malt
5% Chocolate Malt (320-400L)

If anything the Vienna could be replaced by Pilsner or Pale - OR - left out completely and the amount of Munich and chocolate malt increased to make up the difference.

High wheat content grain bills can give lautering issues so rice hulls and a step mash are necessary or perhaps BIAB.

A decoction would be appropriate if you have the equipment.

Temperature steps would be along the lines of:

95F - 15 min
113F - 10 min
122F - 10 min
147F - 30 min
162F - 20 min
172F - 10 min

I would say that the first 3 steps would be unnecessary and possibly detrimental using most malts

[huckdavidson]

There are many suggestions on the German homebrewing forum:

https://hobbybrauer.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=123905&hilit=aventinus+recipe#p123905

With this recipe being somewhat popular:

https://www.maischemalzundmehr.de/index.php?id=179&inhaltmitte=recipe

The most popular homebrew clones seem to have no crystal malts or sugars but some contain smoked malt which is most likely not used in the commercial beer.

Having said that I would probably start with:

55% Dark Wheat Malt
25% Munich Malt II
15% Vienna Malt
5% Chocolate Malt (320-400L)

If anything the Vienna could be replaced by Pilsner or Pale - OR - left out completely and the amount of Munich and chocolate malt increased to make up the difference.

High wheat content grain bills can give lautering issues so rice hulls and a step mash are necessary or perhaps BIAB.

A decoction would be appropriate if you have the equipment.

Temperature steps would be along the lines of:

95F - 15 min
113F - 10 min
122F - 10 min
147F - 30 min
162F - 20 min
172F - 10 min

I would say that the first 3 steps would be unnecessary and possibly detrimental using most malts

That seems to be the rhetoric now-a-days but I've had good luck employing those rests on wheat beers with no detrimental effects.

[fredthecat]

There are many suggestions on the German homebrewing forum:

https://hobbybrauer.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=123905&hilit=aventinus+recipe#p123905

With this recipe being somewhat popular:

https://www.maischemalzundmehr.de/index.php?id=179&inhaltmitte=recipe

The most popular homebrew clones seem to have no crystal malts or sugars but some contain smoked malt which is most likely not used in the commercial beer.

Having said that I would probably start with:

55% Dark Wheat Malt
25% Munich Malt II
15% Vienna Malt
5% Chocolate Malt (320-400L)

If anything the Vienna could be replaced by Pilsner or Pale - OR - left out completely and the amount of Munich and chocolate malt increased to make up the difference.

High wheat content grain bills can give lautering issues so rice hulls and a step mash are necessary or perhaps BIAB.

A decoction would be appropriate if you have the equipment.

Temperature steps would be along the lines of:

95F - 15 min
113F - 10 min
122F - 10 min
147F - 30 min
162F - 20 min
172F - 10 min

checking that page, lol there are a lot of variations in proposed recipes. i feel like munich is involved but i prefer to keep munich malt low, and i just dont see a roasted malt in it beyond 1-2% for colour. there is a reminder of melanoidin malt in it, that is a real consideration. the most raisiny beer i ever made hade a huge amount of cara aroma and melanoidin malt in it, and thinking of that reminds me of that kind of raisin/pure dark fruit character i want in it.

ill probably formulate something and post it up here sometime soon for critique

I would say that the first 3 steps would be unnecessary and possibly detrimental using most malts

i have had bad experiences with step mashes before, but the past few months i have been considering benefits of a ferulic acid rest since i want a lot of clove

[huckdavidson]

checking that page, lol there are a lot of variations in proposed recipes. i feel like munich is involved but i prefer to keep munich malt low, and i just dont see a roasted malt in it beyond 1-2% for colour. there is a reminder of melanoidin malt in it, that is a real consideration. the most raisiny beer i ever made hade a huge amount of cara aroma and melanoidin malt in it, and thinking of that reminds me of that kind of raisin/pure dark fruit character i want in it.

ill probably formulate something and post it up here sometime soon for critique

Are you saying the combination of caraaroma and melanoidin is what gives you the deep raisin/dark fruit character?

Caraaroma is a roasted malt albeit more lightly roasted than a chocolate or roast malt.

Your recipe will most certainly add to the variation.

[erockrph]

checking that page, lol there are a lot of variations in proposed recipes. i feel like munich is involved but i prefer to keep munich malt low, and i just dont see a roasted malt in it beyond 1-2% for colour. there is a reminder of melanoidin malt in it, that is a real consideration. the most raisiny beer i ever made hade a huge amount of cara aroma and melanoidin malt in it, and thinking of that reminds me of that kind of raisin/pure dark fruit character i want in it.

If you're looking for raisin/dark fruit specifically rather than a specifically authentic clone recipe, then D90 Candi Syrup is my top pick to bring that character out in beer. Second choice is Simpson's Extra Dark crystal malt. Special B gives it too. I get what you're saying about Melanoiden, but I've only gotten that character from Melanoiden or Aromatic Malt when I overused it. In those cases, there was this lingering savory flavor that came along with the dried fruit that I just didn't like. YMMV, obviously.

It's been a while since I've had Aventinus, and I don't have a good flavor recall for it, so I don't know if I could recommend a specific amount to use of the D90 and Extra Dark Crystal.

[ynotbrusum]

Here is a clone recipe from AIH:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0620/0862/3325/files/03905.pdf

Never tried it, but looking at the simple ingredients/grain bill, it looks to be pretty consistent with and result in what I have experienced with the real stuff.

Good luck in chasing your unicorn.  Just keep it fun.

[fredthecat]

Here is a clone recipe from AIH:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0620/0862/3325/files/03905.pdf

Never tried it, but looking at the simple ingredients/grain bill, it looks to be pretty consistent with and result in what I have experienced with the real stuff.

Good luck in chasing your unicorn.  Just keep it fun.

that is looking in the ballpark grist-wise, very small dark roasted ~>450L malt for colour and subtle notes, good chunk of intense crystal then pilsner/munich and wheat to varying degrees.

If you're looking for raisin/dark fruit specifically rather than a specifically authentic clone recipe, then D90 Candi Syrup is my top pick to bring that character out in beer. Second choice is Simpson's Extra Dark crystal malt. Special B gives it too. I get what you're saying about Melanoiden, but I've only gotten that character from Melanoiden or Aromatic Malt when I overused it. In those cases, there was this lingering savory flavor that came along with the dried fruit that I just didn't like. YMMV, obviously.

It's been a while since I've had Aventinus, and I don't have a good flavor recall for it, so I don't know if I could recommend a specific amount to use of the D90 and Extra Dark Crystal.

im going to do it and add d90 and lol that is right about melanoidin, i remember it has always been pretty unpopular generally, with a small minority saying they like it in very VERY small doses.

heres my recipe

30% pilsner
42% wheat
17% munich 2
3% crystal 120 (i use it a fair bit)
1% black malt

6% D90 syrup
4% dextrose

~17 IBU

i intend to not encourage haze in it.

[Rudy]

This is from Brew Classic European Beers At Home:

OG: 1.077
FG: 1.019
22 EBU calculated as:  EBU=Weight of hops(g) x AA% x Utilization / Volume brewed (l) x 10


60% Wheat
15% Munich
14% Pilsner
11% Caramunich

Mash
122F 20 minutes
149F 60 minutes

Boil 90 minutes
1 oz Hallertau 90 min
.3 oz Hallertau 15 min

Top fermenting yeast.  The book is from 1995 so the yeast selection from back then was limited.