[HopDen]

Putting together a Belgian Tripel recipe. OG: 1.080 I will use either WY-3787 or WLP-530 and have read that they benefit from an incremental feeding schedule when using sugar in the fermentation. In essence, the yeast eats through the complex sugars first, then through the simple sugar. This will help with attenuation. If I do this I can feed the sugar solution back through the gas-in post on my PRV w/o worry of any O2 pick-up.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But a couple of questions;

1- Should I wait until fermentation is complete with the complex sugars?
2- How much liquid sugar should I feed per feeding? I am thinking that I will divide feedings into thirds which will be 5.5lbs of sugar into 2 gallons/3 and feed once a day for 3 days
3- Should I feed it all at once or in thirds?

Thoughts??

[denny]

Putting together a Belgian Tripel recipe. OG: 1.080 I will use either WY-3787 or WLP-530 and have read that they benefit from an incremental feeding schedule when using sugar in the fermentation. In essence, the yeast eats through the complex sugars first, then through the simple sugar. This will help with attenuation. If I do this I can feed the sugar solution back through the gas-in post on my PRV w/o worry of any O2 pick-up.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But a couple of questions;

1- Should I wait until fermentation is complete with the complex sugars?
2- How much liquid sugar should I feed per feeding? I am thinking that I will divide feedings into thirds which will be 5.5lbs of sugar into 2 gallons/3 and feed once a day for 3 days
3- Should I feed it all at once or in thirds?

Thoughts??

I have used 3787 many, many times. In fact, my last 2 batches. I can assure you that incremental feeding is not necessary. Westmalle (source of 3787) doesn't do it. Why should I?

[John M]

I do incremental feeding with my Belgian ales. I wait til "primary" is done before I begin feeding it simple sugar, to make sure it finishes dinner, before dessert. The way it was explained to me was that by incrementally feeding it, you're stringing the fermentation along, allowing for the driest, most complete result. If I'm adding say 2 lbs, I would add .5 lb each day for four days. 

[HopDen]

Putting together a Belgian Tripel recipe. OG: 1.080 I will use either WY-3787 or WLP-530 and have read that they benefit from an incremental feeding schedule when using sugar in the fermentation. In essence, the yeast eats through the complex sugars first, then through the simple sugar. This will help with attenuation. If I do this I can feed the sugar solution back through the gas-in post on my PRV w/o worry of any O2 pick-up.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But a couple of questions;

1- Should I wait until fermentation is complete with the complex sugars?
2- How much liquid sugar should I feed per feeding? I am thinking that I will divide feedings into thirds which will be 5.5lbs of sugar into 2 gallons/3 and feed once a day for 3 days
3- Should I feed it all at once or in thirds?

Thoughts??

I have used 3787 many, many times. In fact, my last 2 batches. I can assure you that incremental feeding is not necessary. Westmalle (source of 3787) doesn't do it. Why should I?

I brewed a BGSA about a year ago and it did not attenuate fully. Too sweet. I was hoping to avoid the same issue. Thanks Denny

[HopDen]

I do incremental feeding with my Belgian ales. I wait til "primary" is done before I begin feeding it simple sugar, to make sure it finishes dinner, before dessert. The way it was explained to me was that by incrementally feeding it, you're stringing the fermentation along, allowing for the driest, most complete result. If I'm adding say 2 lbs, I would add .5 lb each day for four days.

Did you experience any negative effects?

[denny]

Putting together a Belgian Tripel recipe. OG: 1.080 I will use either WY-3787 or WLP-530 and have read that they benefit from an incremental feeding schedule when using sugar in the fermentation. In essence, the yeast eats through the complex sugars first, then through the simple sugar. This will help with attenuation. If I do this I can feed the sugar solution back through the gas-in post on my PRV w/o worry of any O2 pick-up.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But a couple of questions;

1- Should I wait until fermentation is complete with the complex sugars?
2- How much liquid sugar should I feed per feeding? I am thinking that I will divide feedings into thirds which will be 5.5lbs of sugar into 2 gallons/3 and feed once a day for 3 days
3- Should I feed it all at once or in thirds?

Thoughts??

I have used 3787 many, many times. In fact, my last 2 batches. I can assure you that incremental feeding is not necessary. Westmalle (source of 3787) doesn't do it. Why should I?

I brewed a BGSA about a year ago and it did not attenuate fully. Too sweet. I was hoping to avoid the same issue. Thanks Denny

I'm not sure you should assume it happened because you didn't do incremental feeding. Again, why doesn't Westmalle do it?

[John M]

I do incremental feeding with my Belgian ales. I wait til "primary" is done before I begin feeding it simple sugar, to make sure it finishes dinner, before dessert. The way it was explained to me was that by incrementally feeding it, you're stringing the fermentation along, allowing for the driest, most complete result. If I'm adding say 2 lbs, I would add .5 lb each day for four days.

Did you experience any negative effects?

Absolutely not. I have done it dozens of times. Always works well. You don't have to worry about oxygen exposure- for one CO2 will be wafting out for the breif period your fermenter is not sealed, and additionaly you are giving it more food to ferment which will scour for oxygen.

[Richard]

Putting together a Belgian Tripel recipe. OG: 1.080 I will use either WY-3787 or WLP-530 and have read that they benefit from an incremental feeding schedule when using sugar in the fermentation. In essence, the yeast eats through the complex sugars first, then through the simple sugar. This will help with attenuation. If I do this I can feed the sugar solution back through the gas-in post on my PRV w/o worry of any O2 pick-up.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But a couple of questions;

1- Should I wait until fermentation is complete with the complex sugars?
2- How much liquid sugar should I feed per feeding? I am thinking that I will divide feedings into thirds which will be 5.5lbs of sugar into 2 gallons/3 and feed once a day for 3 days
3- Should I feed it all at once or in thirds?

Thoughts??

From "Yeast" by White and Zainasheff, pp 22-23, yeast consume simpler sugars  first. Sugars are consumed in this order: glucose, fructose, sucrose, maltose, maltotriose. Table sugar is sucrose, which is not the simplest of sugars, but is simpler than the maltose that makes up the bulk of the sugars in wort. You have your timeline backwards.

If you want to avoid oxygen pickup be sure to boil your syrup water to drive out all the dissolved oxygen before adding it to your beer.

[HopDen]

Putting together a Belgian Tripel recipe. OG: 1.080 I will use either WY-3787 or WLP-530 and have read that they benefit from an incremental feeding schedule when using sugar in the fermentation. In essence, the yeast eats through the complex sugars first, then through the simple sugar. This will help with attenuation. If I do this I can feed the sugar solution back through the gas-in post on my PRV w/o worry of any O2 pick-up.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But a couple of questions;

1- Should I wait until fermentation is complete with the complex sugars?
2- How much liquid sugar should I feed per feeding? I am thinking that I will divide feedings into thirds which will be 5.5lbs of sugar into 2 gallons/3 and feed once a day for 3 days
3- Should I feed it all at once or in thirds?

Thoughts??

From "Yeast" by White and Zainasheff, pp 22-23, yeast consume simpler sugars  first. Sugars are consumed in this order: glucose, fructose, sucrose, maltose, maltotriose. Table sugar is sucrose, which is not the simplest of sugars, but is simpler than the maltose that makes up the bulk of the sugars in wort. You have your timeline backwards.

If you want to avoid oxygen pickup be sure to boil your syrup water to drive out all the dissolved oxygen before adding it to your beer.

Where do I have my timeline backwards? I want the yeast to consume the more complex yummies and then onto the more simpler yummies. If I am missing something please point it out.

[Richard]

Putting together a Belgian Tripel recipe. OG: 1.080 I will use either WY-3787 or WLP-530 and have read that they benefit from an incremental feeding schedule when using sugar in the fermentation. In essence, the yeast eats through the complex sugars first, then through the simple sugar. This will help with attenuation. If I do this I can feed the sugar solution back through the gas-in post on my PRV w/o worry of any O2 pick-up.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But a couple of questions;

1- Should I wait until fermentation is complete with the complex sugars?
2- How much liquid sugar should I feed per feeding? I am thinking that I will divide feedings into thirds which will be 5.5lbs of sugar into 2 gallons/3 and feed once a day for 3 days
3- Should I feed it all at once or in thirds?

Thoughts??

From "Yeast" by White and Zainasheff, pp 22-23, yeast consume simpler sugars  first. Sugars are consumed in this order: glucose, fructose, sucrose, maltose, maltotriose. Table sugar is sucrose, which is not the simplest of sugars, but is simpler than the maltose that makes up the bulk of the sugars in wort. You have your timeline backwards.

If you want to avoid oxygen pickup be sure to boil your syrup water to drive out all the dissolved oxygen before adding it to your beer.

Where do I have my timeline backwards? I want the yeast to consume the more complex yummies and then onto the more simpler yummies. If I am missing something please point it out.

You said "..the yeast eats through the complex sugars first, then through the simple sugar." This statement is ambiguous. I took it to mean that you were saying the normal fermentation timeline is for the yeast to go complex to simple. I guess you were saying to wait until the yeast had consumed the complex sugars before feeding them the additional simple ones, but it was just worded poorly.

[HopDen]

Putting together a Belgian Tripel recipe. OG: 1.080 I will use either WY-3787 or WLP-530 and have read that they benefit from an incremental feeding schedule when using sugar in the fermentation. In essence, the yeast eats through the complex sugars first, then through the simple sugar. This will help with attenuation. If I do this I can feed the sugar solution back through the gas-in post on my PRV w/o worry of any O2 pick-up.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But a couple of questions;

1- Should I wait until fermentation is complete with the complex sugars?
2- How much liquid sugar should I feed per feeding? I am thinking that I will divide feedings into thirds which will be 5.5lbs of sugar into 2 gallons/3 and feed once a day for 3 days
3- Should I feed it all at once or in thirds?

Thoughts??

From "Yeast" by White and Zainasheff, pp 22-23, yeast consume simpler sugars  first. Sugars are consumed in this order: glucose, fructose, sucrose, maltose, maltotriose. Table sugar is sucrose, which is not the simplest of sugars, but is simpler than the maltose that makes up the bulk of the sugars in wort. You have your timeline backwards.

If you want to avoid oxygen pickup be sure to boil your syrup water to drive out all the dissolved oxygen before adding it to your beer.

Where do I have my timeline backwards? I want the yeast to consume the more complex yummies and then onto the more simpler yummies. If I am missing something please point it out.

You said "..the yeast eats through the complex sugars first, then through the simple sugar." This statement is ambiguous. I took it to mean that you were saying the normal fermentation timeline is for the yeast to go complex to simple. I guess you were saying to wait until the yeast had consumed the complex sugars before feeding them the additional simple ones, but it was just worded poorly.

Got it. I agree I probably could have worded it differently.
Cheers!!

[erockrph]

If you want to avoid oxygen pickup be sure to boil your syrup water to drive out all the dissolved oxygen before adding it to your beer.

If your yeast is active, then it should consume any O2 introduced. That said, boiling is still probably a decent idea for sanitization purposes.

[Homebrew_kev]

I can assure you that incremental feeding is not necessary. Westmalle (source of 3787) doesn't do it. Why should I?

Not to pick on you, denny but I actually have the answer...

It comes down to tank geometry and hydrostatic pressure. That yeast strain will work differently when fermenting 5 gallons or 15bbl. The geometry of the tank matters. The weight of the wort pushes down to the bottom of the fermenter and increases the pressure (like swimming to the bottom of the deep end in a pool). I don't understand the science, but those belgian yeast strains operate differently while under pressure - which is helpful for those abbey/trappist commercial brewers. I wouldn't be surprised if Westmalle had specific requirements for the geometry of their fermenters. They can toss in their sugars in the whirlpool.

On a homebrew level, incremental feeding will ensure a you'll have a good batch.

[Homebrew_kev]

If you want to avoid oxygen pickup be sure to boil your syrup water to drive out all the dissolved oxygen before adding it to your beer.

If your yeast is active, then it should consume any O2 introduced. That said, boiling is still probably a decent idea for sanitization purposes.

I know this goes against a lot of homebrewer knowledge - but adding in o2 at high krausen would help the yeast. Yeast prefers o2 before sugar and will scavenge o2 whenever it can. At high krausen it's most active, and giving it a shot of o2 would be helpful, especially if you're making a high abv belgian beer. I wouldn't even be worried about sanitizing it, there's trillions of super active yeast cells in there that whatever household bacteria gets in there wouldn't stand a chance. I'd be more concerned about adding in unfiltered water, with chlorine and stuff like that. But, I think thinning out the sugar would be helpful, as it would disperse better in the fermenter.

[denny]

I can assure you that incremental feeding is not necessary. Westmalle (source of 3787) doesn't do it. Why should I?

Not to pick on you, denny but I actually have the answer...

It comes down to tank geometry and hydrostatic pressure. That yeast strain will work differently when fermenting 5 gallons or 15bbl. The geometry of the tank matters. The weight of the wort pushes down to the bottom of the fermenter and increases the pressure (like swimming to the bottom of the deep end in a pool). I don't understand the science, but those belgian yeast strains operate differently while under pressure - which is helpful for those abbey/trappist commercial brewers. I wouldn't be surprised if Westmalle had specific requirements for the geometry of their fermenters. They can toss in their sugars in the whirlpool.

On a homebrew level, incremental feeding will ensure a you'll have a good batch.

Yes, I understand hydrostatic pressure but I really don't think that's the issue. Not to mention my own experience of using 3787 dozens of times. Why sugar in the whirlpool?