[Visor]

  I saw this thread the other day and it got me wondering just exactly how much I have spent on brewing stuff, so I spent most of the afternoon yesterday figuring out the answer, as I had saved the invoices or receipts from almost all the stuff I've bought. Since I resumed brewing 8 years ago, I've spent over $4,800 on equipment/gear, that doesn't include consumables like cleaners, sanitizers, reagents and the like. I'm sure there's at least a couple hundred $ of stuff I overlooked. That number did surprise me, if I'd been asked to do a ballpark guess, I would have put the amount at probable less than 2/3 that much. I run an entirely manual brewery so I have no pumps, no AIO system, I don't keg, and have no fancy digital gizmos. I do have a few extra fridges I got for free from my appliance store days that are ever so handy for lagering and crashing, so that saved me a chunk of money. To date I've brewed and bottled a bit over 14,700 bottles of beer, so my equipment cost per bottle is a tad under $0.35. My ingredient cost per bottle ranges from $0.30 @ to around $1.30 @ depending on the beer; the average is probably around $0.45 - $0.50 per bottle, so the amortized equipment and consumed ingredient cost is well under $1 a bottle. At this point, the only significant purchases I have left to make are an exhaust system and water filtration, which I'm pretty sure will be well under $1K.
   I didn't take up brewing for the enjoyment of it, and while there are aspects of it that are enjoyable or at least satisfying, brewing is about making something I'm going to consume that I can't buy in stores, it's not about having fun - brew day is an 8-to-16 hour workout. That being said, if I wasn't brewing, I'd be working at something else that's probably less satisfying.

[hopfenundmalz]

In reference to the subject line, now that aging homebrewers are retiring from the hobby and are not being replaced in numbers by younger brewers, who prefer to sip on White Claw in a sunlit fern-filled setting, there is a boatload of cheap homebrewing equipment available for sale if you spend time searching it out on Craig's list, Facebook, etc. Since this is bulky equipment, you need to find a local seller to come pick it up.

While on this subject, if you live in western Montana, I have a lot of free glass carboys. 

After many saying Grainfather Systems are so easy to brew on I'm looking on Marketplace. Nearest ones are on the far side of Cleveland from me. Sigh.

Edit, I'm putting my glass carboys on marketplace soon. I've got too many for an old guy to wrangle safely.

[denny]

In reference to the subject line, now that aging homebrewers are retiring from the hobby and are not being replaced in numbers by younger brewers, who prefer to sip on White Claw in a sunlit fern-filled setting, there is a boatload of cheap homebrewing equipment available for sale if you spend time searching it out on Craig's list, Facebook, etc. Since this is bulky equipment, you need to find a local seller to come pick it up.

While on this subject, if you live in western Montana, I have a lot of free glass carboys. 

After many saying Grainfather Systems are so easy to brew on I'm looking on Marketplace. Nearest ones are on the far side of Cleveland from me. Sigh.

Edit, I'm putting my glass carboys on marketplace soon. I've got too many for an old guy to wrangle safely.

Just don't get a G30

[M-O-O-N That spells beer!]

Okay, I'll bite..
why not a G30?

[denny]

Okay, I'll bite..
why not a G30?

While the G30 is a fine unit, the design of the G40 has so many improvements that I'd find it easy to justify the additional cost

[Steve Ruch]

In the July/August 2023 Zymurgy is a piece (Brewing On A Budget) that compares a recipe brewed on minimal equipment vs the same recipe done on an all-in-one unit.

[Steve Ruch]

The public perception is that homebrewing equipment is exhorbitantly expensive and makes homebrewing inherently more expensive than buying beer

If there were a document that described how to stove top brew 3.0 gal all-grain (BIAB) batches (yields a 24 pack of 12 oz bottles) with common kitchen equipment, would that be a starting point to change the perception? 

I brew 3 gallon all-grain (BIAB) in my kitchen and always get at least 30 bottles.

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The public perception is that homebrewing equipment is exhorbitantly expensive and makes homebrewing inherently more expensive than buying beer

If there were a document that described how to stove top brew 3.0 gal all-grain (BIAB) batches (yields a 24 pack of 12 oz bottles) with common kitchen equipment, would that be a starting point to change the perception? 

I brew 3 gallon all-grain (BIAB) in my kitchen and always get at least 30 bottles.

It would be interesting to see a detailed writeup (Zymurgy article?) on bottling processes. 
 

[fredthecat]

In the July/August 2023 Zymurgy is a piece (Brewing On A Budget) that compares a recipe brewed on minimal equipment vs the same recipe done on an all-in-one unit.

Haven't read the article, but I strongly believe if one did the math properly and broke down the costs over a reasonable lifetime of beer produced by the all-in-one unit, it wouldn't be that much more than the minimal. And definitely way, way way less than comparable craft beer. and the key hard to quantify factor is "available and comparable craft/import/etc beer". because you can make stuff you literally can't get for any money.

The public perception is that homebrewing equipment is exhorbitantly expensive and makes homebrewing inherently more expensive than buying beer

If there were a document that described how to stove top brew 3.0 gal all-grain (BIAB) batches (yields a 24 pack of 12 oz bottles) with common kitchen equipment, would that be a starting point to change the perception? 

I brew 3 gallon all-grain (BIAB) in my kitchen and always get at least 30 bottles.

My Ideal theoretical bottle size would be something like 650 to 800ml, ie. 750ml if it were a real world size. It's a very big drink, but would still be like a pint and a half, so you could have one on a week night. I go with 500ml bottles since I live in reality though.

 I do keep 330ml(12oz) bottles around but try to keep them for strong beers I intend to keep only. Everything 7% or under goes in a 500ml bottle and imho its just that little bit easier to bottle and handle. My intended volumes since I have one bigger carboy, but if I have 20.0 litres of wort go into the carboy from the kettle, realistically I will end up with about 18 litres of beer in bottles, sometimes 17.5 or so even. I'm trying to go even further in getting rid of low-flocculating yeast, but I tend to stop transferring as soon as I see a bit of trub/haze/sediment moving around. so thats 36 x 500ml bottles basically.

[Steve Ruch]

In the July/August 2023 Zymurgy is a piece (Brewing On A Budget) that compares a recipe brewed on minimal equipment vs the same recipe done on an all-in-one unit.

Haven't read the article, but I strongly believe if one did the math properly and broke down the costs over a reasonable lifetime of beer produced by the all-in-one unit, it wouldn't be that much more than the minimal.

That may well be, but the focus of the article was to compare the end beer brewed. 10 of the 19 in a triangle test preferred the beer brewed on the all-in-one and 9 preferred or thought the minimalist beer was equal.

[denny]

In the July/August 2023 Zymurgy is a piece (Brewing On A Budget) that compares a recipe brewed on minimal equipment vs the same recipe done on an all-in-one unit.

Haven't read the article, but I strongly believe if one did the math properly and broke down the costs over a reasonable lifetime of beer produced by the all-in-one unit, it wouldn't be that much more than the minimal.

That may well be, but the focus of the article was to compare the end beer brewed. 10 of the 19 in a triangle test preferred the beer brewed on the all-in-one and 9 preferred or thought the minimalist beer was equal.

In my experience, an all in one is about making brewing  easier. Beer quality is up to the brewer.

[MDixon]

So 10/19 thought expensive equipment made better beer and 9/19 thought cheap equipment made better beer? Seems like a toss up to me.

All expensive gets you is potentially more precise temperature control provided everything is calibrated, and potentially less physical work depending upon the system.

As I've said before, I like the Armstrong type system which explains why I still use the crappy cooler with a copper coil for lauter.

[Steve Ruch]

So 10/19 thought expensive equipment made better beer and 9/19 thought cheap equipment made better beer? Seems like a toss up to me.

Proved my point.

[neuse]

So 10/19 thought expensive equipment made better beer and 9/19 thought cheap equipment made better beer? Seems like a toss up to me.

Proved my point.

The way I read it is no one thought the minimalist beer was better. 10 liked the AIO beer and 9 thought they were equal, meaning the AIO beer rated better. But I really wonder if those results are an anomaly. It seems like a stretch to think the slightly (IMO) temperature control improvement would make a noticeable difference. It would come down to the individual brewer's method of temperature control.

[Drewch]

So 10/19 thought expensive equipment made better beer and 9/19 thought cheap equipment made better beer? Seems like a toss up to me.

Proved my point.

The way I read it is no one thought the minimalist beer was better. 10 liked the AIO beer and 9 thought they were equal, meaning the AIO beer rated better. But I really wonder if those results are an anomaly. It seems like a stretch to think the slightly (IMO) temperature control improvement would make a noticeable difference. It would come down to the individual brewer's method of temperature control.

If anything, it seems like the recent literature suggests that cold-side temperature control would be more important than really precise temperature in mashing.  The preponderance of what I've read recently affirms the impact of mash temp on fermentability but undermines the perceptible impact.