[fredthecat]

i could go into this in detail, but i have just noticed after some recent unrelated posts elsewhere - the public perception is that homebrewing equipment is exhorbitantly expensive and makes homebrewing inherently more expensive than buying beer.

this is not true, and with the frequency im seeing/hearing it both from non-homebrewers, light homebrewers and long-time homebrewers it seems to be THE perception.

that is definitely going to be a factor in inhibiting the growth of homebrewing and it really needs to be nipped in the bud. also just because im sick of reading/hearing falsehoods.

side point - that it is also very hard to accurately factor in these equipment/consumable costs in your beer. that is completely not true at all.

[Megary]

With the caveat that “expensive” is a relative term…

As far as homebrewing equipment goes, it can be very expensive, but it doesn’t have to be.  For a new homebrewer, it can be hard to navigate the waters without the proper guidance.

[fredthecat]

With the caveat that “expensive” is a relative term…

As far as homebrewing equipment goes, it can be very expensive, but it doesn’t have to be.  For a new homebrewer, it can be hard to navigate the waters without the proper guidance.

absolutely, and i know the fact is many people both beginners and long-timers (though the long-timers i assume have a more accurate/clear idea of what equipment they want and why) often buy equipment sets in the many thousands of dollars. looking at the price of say a G30, I think it is actually a pretty good value and i am likely to buy something like that in the future, but it is still a lot. However, these kind of large price vs. unknown as of yet numbers (the end product beer) are a really common thing that people get confused about without sitting down and doing the real math. Googling, I see many people talking about brewing on a G30 grainfather for years, lets just say 3 years. a low casual number of beers per year excluding say july and august - 10 brews per year. each one results in 5 gallons per product, i know this can vary a great deal, but i generally brew ~6 gallons and end up with about 5 of finished product packaged.

grainfather G30 is on sale right now for $700 at their site https://shop.grainfather.com/us/g30-brewing-system-220v.html

this is a pretty all-in-one system and im not going to break-down all the parts and extras but this would be the large chunk of your equipment investment.

$700 / (10 brews x 3 years) =  $23.33

$23.33 / 18.9 litres (5 gallons) = $1.23 / litre / 2 (500ml tallboy or 500ml bottle size - a pint)

$0.61 in equipment costs per pint of beer and after 3 years you would have amortized the cost of that equipment and paid it off. so after that point it would be $0 in equipment costs.

since i dont count my equipment costs and am estimating the equivalent in USD of $0.81 per 500ml bottle of 5% average beer someone just starting out would be paying $1.42USD per 500ml bottle of homebrewed beer around 5%.

this is in a scenario where they brew on the low side of average in frequency, and in america I know some people have cheaper grain costs. i don't buy grain in bulk and i actually don't do some other cost-cutting things i could do (that don't necessarily affect quality).





I know that concern on the demographics and growth numbers of homebrewers is a continual concern in the AHA. I'm not a member of the AHA, but I do want homebrewing to be stable in popularity if not grow purely for selfish reasons - i want to be able to access my stuff. There needs to be an effort to avoid and reduce the perception that homebrewing is a big money sink, when in my case it is a way for me to turn free-time into money-saving. I know this may seem like a myopic issue for me, but all I see and hear is this. I never hear people mention that homebrewing saves money and it can and does.

[reverseapachemaster]

It can be incredibly expensive. I have a friend with over $10k in brewing equipment in his basement and at least another $1-2k in old equipment he upgraded through. It looks like he called Blichmann and asked for one of everything. Tack on ingredients, CO2 refills, cleaning supplies, etc. He needs to brew a lot of beer to break even against buying beer at the store. You don't need a $10k brewhouse to brew good beer at home but he makes good beer and enjoys brewing on it. For him, it was a worthwhile investment. It would be overkill for me. I'm mostly still using my original equipment I bought 14-15 years ago.

I don't hear cost as a factor too much these days. With BIAB, you can brew at a very low cost. These days the lack of interest I hear is the ease of going to the store and buying good beer versus spending a day brewing and cleaning.

[neuse]

The Grainfather setup is affordable, and you can even do it much cheaper doing partial boil extract brewing. That takes a kettle, say 4 gallons. Fermentation temperature control can be done with a swamp cooler - that's what I do. The fermenter can be a plastic bucket. Total equipment cost is really low.

[denny]

Anybody remember Cheap'n'Easy?

Www.dennybrew.com

[BrewBama]

Anybody remember Cheap'n'Easy?

Www.dennybrew.com

That’s how I started. …but it morphed into ‘expensive and complex’ when I added a stainless MLT, a pump, HERMS, exhaust fan, RO filter, induction cooktop, etc….


One day, you’ll wake up and there won’t be anymore time to do the things you’ve always wanted to do. Don’t wait. Do it now.

[MDixon]

So back in the day I bought most of the stuff for a HERMS system. Then I realized the system only assists you in ease of transfer or maintaining temps. So all that stuff sits in a box and I still mash in a direct fired keggle and move the mash to a cooler for lauter. Somebody could easily go from extract to AG for a $50 investment. No need for expensive equipment and gizmos.

I know some people now love their gadgets and brew systems, but personally if I wanted all the work done for me I would just buy beer.

[John M]

Everyone's trying to run a mini professional brewery at home, with all the bling. I can honestly say I've bought anything/everything I felt necessary to make the best beer possible, without regard to how cool or fancy it is.

I'm a HUGE advocate for Speidel plastic fermenters. I have 4 of them, and they are incredibly practical, as well as versatile (and very durable). And you can get them for $75.

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The public perception is that homebrewing equipment is exhorbitantly expensive and makes homebrewing inherently more expensive than buying beer

If there were a document that described how to stove top brew 3.0 gal all-grain (BIAB) batches (yields a 24 pack of 12 oz bottles) with common kitchen equipment, would that be a starting point to change the perception?  If so, could that document be packaged for sale?  Or would that document need to be published online for free? 

eta: the document would be similar to chapter 1 of How To Brew, 4e and Speed Brewing, but with a tight focus on processes (leaving out 'brewing elements' ingredient overviews)

[denny]

The public perception is that homebrewing equipment is exhorbitantly expensive and makes homebrewing inherently more expensive than buying beer

If there were a document that described how to stove top brew 3.0 gal all-grain (BIAB) batches (yields a 24 pack of 12 oz bottles) with common kitchen equipment, would that be a starting point to change the perception?  If so, could that document be packaged for sale?  Or would that document need to be published online for free? 

eta: the document would be similar to chapter 1 of How To Brew, 4e and Speed Brewing, but with a tight focus on processes (leaving out 'brewing elements' ingredient overviews)

You know how cheap homebrewers are

[redrocker652002]

I started on a Northern Brewer Started kit.  It included 2 buckets, a 5 gallon pot with a lid, spoon, bottle filler, bottle capper and a few more odds and ends.  I think I paid about 150 for it.  I have since added a 10 gallon Gas One kettle, a Gas One propane burner, and a used 10 gallon cooler and a few other gadgets.  I have been brewing for about 3 years now I think, and typically make 5 gallon batches.  I would say I make 10 to 12 batches a year.  While I do love the look of the gadgets I see, I have made good beer, to me and my buddies, by using minimal equipment.  So, to me, the process is the fun part and to add all this bling, while some enjoy having it, it does nothing for me right now.  But that is just me, and my two cents worth.  And believe me, it aint even worth that much.  LOL 

[Megary]

…the process is the fun part…

Excellent.

Join or renew with the AHA and receive your free “The Process is the Fun Part” T-shirt!

That’s the message that is getting lost, or at least not properly communicated, as far as I’m concerned.


And as a (relatively) new homebrewer, your opinion is worth far, far more than .02. 

Cheers!

[fredthecat]

Anybody remember Cheap'n'Easy?

Www.dennybrew.com

still totally relevant for anyone whose attention span hasn't been blown by tiktok/click culture etc. clear text and relevant pictures, its a great starting point for understanding how to practically do a mash. i believe this page is basically what i used to make my cooler mashtuns.

So back in the day I bought most of the stuff for a HERMS system. Then I realized the system only assists you in ease of transfer or maintaining temps. So all that stuff sits in a box and I still mash in a direct fired keggle and move the mash to a cooler for lauter. Somebody could easily go from extract to AG for a $50 investment. No need for expensive equipment and gizmos.

I know some people now love their gadgets and brew systems, but personally if I wanted all the work done for me I would just buy beer.

Everyone's trying to run a mini professional brewery at home, with all the bling. I can honestly say I've bought anything/everything I felt necessary to make the best beer possible, without regard to how cool or fancy it is.

I'm a HUGE advocate for Speidel plastic fermenters. I have 4 of them, and they are incredibly practical, as well as versatile (and very durable). And you can get them for $75.

just true, and for someone who has the money and inclination - go for it. i definitely do imagine the benefits of pumping from bottom of vessel to reduce oxygen ingress even further and just the ease of not having to pick up 5 to 6 gallons of wort. i know some people do 10 gallon up to even rare 20 gallon batches.

The public perception is that homebrewing equipment is exhorbitantly expensive and makes homebrewing inherently more expensive than buying beer

If there were a document that described how to stove top brew 3.0 gal all-grain (BIAB) batches (yields a 24 pack of 12 oz bottles) with common kitchen equipment, would that be a starting point to change the perception?  If so, could that document be packaged for sale?  Or would that document need to be published online for free? 

eta: the document would be similar to chapter 1 of How To Brew, 4e and Speed Brewing, but with a tight focus on processes (leaving out 'brewing elements' ingredient overviews)

a U-brew place in my city frequently puts up the math on signboards indicating breakdown in price per bottle. i hope they're doing well, though i have no clue about the quality or even type of booze they're making.

information should always be free, i could go on an extreme and wide-ranging rant but the early internet was the ultimate anti-commercial, free-speech, DIY place. it has moved far away from that. yes AHA should have more documents on the real how-to-do it functionally, like homebrewers explaining their setup at various levels ie. super simple, DIY setup, intermediate, fully automated etc.

…the process is the fun part…

Excellent.

Join or renew with the AHA and receive your free “The Process is the Fun Part” T-shirt!

That’s the message that is getting lost, or at least not properly communicated, as far as I’m concerned.

And as a (relatively) new homebrewer, your opinion is worth far, far more than .02. 

Cheers!

what do you (you and anyone) think about brewing with friends or other people over and taking part? i have always done it super solo, though i could imagine some day a partner helping me. im sure that could be fun for some people.

its definitely enjoyable, but feels similar to making bread or doing an extensive meal prep/cook session i think. its just producing something for living, which is fulfilling and i enjoy the end result.

re: fun there are definitely certain elements that are pleasing. - when the wort first pours out of the mash (without issues either lol) and you take a taste, when you officially hit boil and it starts up. watching the krausen form and the yeast floating around.

[Drewch]

...the public perception is that homebrewing equipment is exhorbitantly expensive...

Homebrewing can be exorbitantly expensive, but it doesn't have to be.

I think the extreme customizability of the hobby needs to be touted more. Love gadgets and new-fangled tech? Homebrewing can be that. Love simplicity and a connection to history? Homebrewing can be that too!

You can ferment in clay, glass, plastic, or stainless steel.

You can control temperature to the fraction of a degree or brew with the seasons and let nature take its course.

It's your hobby: lean into what makes it fun for you.