[beerocd]

So, because you can stuff explosives up your ass there should be no searching?

Now you're just being argumentative.  
All I said was that without a full body cavity search, we are not 100% safe.
90% is still good odds.  

[rabid_dingo]

How are they violated if you agree and consent to the search?

[capozzoli]

So, because you can stuff explosives up your ass there should be no searching?

Now you're just being argumentative.  
All I said was that without a full body cavity search, we are not 100% safe.
90% is still good odds.  

Sorry.

MMMM full body cavity searches. (said in my best Homer Simpson)

[punatic]

So, because you can stuff explosives up your ass there should be no searching?

Now you're just being argumentative.  
All I said was that without a full body cavity search, we are not 100% safe.
90% is still good odds.  

Sorry.

MMMM full body cavity searches. (said in my best Homer Simpson)

DOH!

[capozzoli]

..and... mmmm lipstick on pigs.

[rabid_dingo]

... (said in my best Homer Simpson)

Hey Apu, gimme a sixer of that beer with little candies floating in it. What do you call it, Skittlebrau?

Sir there is no such thing.

Doh, Well then give me a sixer of Duff and a bag skittles.

[kerneldustjacket]

Doh, Well then give me a sixer of Duff and a bag skittles.

Anyone got a clone recipe for Duff

[corkybstewart]

Go to Europe, they pat you down at random, and no one complains. In England you have to face a gauntlet of questions before they let you on a plane. Isnt this the way it should be if we are going to prevent trouble? 

In another post  you say you rarely travel.  I travel to Europe every other summer and have never been subjected to anything as invasive as the naked scanner or the grope-down.  As a long haired cockroach looking hippie I pretty much always get extra scrutiny.  But that's not the bad part of this whole scam.
It' s the whole idea of "as long as it makes us safe it's OK" that makes me want to puke.  They make look up my anus so far they can see my tonsils, but that doesn't protect anybody from the air freight loaded in the cargo hold that nobody looks at. 
On a more basic level when do we as Americans start  to understand the concept of acceptable risk?  Compare how many people died last year in car accidents against how many died in airplane terrorist attacks?  We could save many thousands of lives by making cars go no faster than 5 mph but Americans won't tolerate that.
I won't fly domestically unless absolutely unavoidable, even before this slapdown of my rights.  If I can drive there in 18 hours I will and avoid the airport.
BTW I've never flown El Al, Israel's airline, but from what I read they have the best security in the world and they manage it without asking that eople give up their basic human rights.
Sorry if this rant offends you but I'm pretty fed up with this whole system right now

[capozzoli]

No, the rant is good. Im learning, Im almost never offended.

I do not travel frequently. However I used to go to Europe once or twice a year, and presently, every now and again to visit wife's family. Havent been there in about three years I would say. I almost never travel for work.

I haven't been to western Europe in several years but that is where I was mostly searched. Always in great Britain, and always grilled with questions, some ridiculous although I cant remember them only that they made no sense. In Eastern Europe I would say an average of one in two flights I was searched.

Every time in the Netherlands where I always stop off before flying onward. Always being about 7 times. They always came up to me and very politely asked, "May I search you? " and I always said yes and raised my arms. Maybe they never do it anymore.

I always wondered about cargo, what do they do to check that?

Traffic fatalities are way down since say the 50's because cars are built much safer, they made technical advances.

I never flew El Al either but Ill bet they search almost everyone, they must, how else could they provide this security?

I dont understand how searching your person is a violation of your basic human rights.

You can say that there are more traffic accidents then airplane crashes but that does not amount to a hill of beans when your plane is nose diving.

I am fed up with the system too, just maybe our protests are misdirected.

Im sorry if this thread is getting on peoples nerves, I just like the subject, I like debating and I like playing devils advocate.

With that in mind let me ask this: If these security measures were in place prior to 9/11 would things of happened the way they did?

[corkybstewart]

I fly to France every other year and have never been searched, not even in Frankfurt Germany back in June.  From what I understand El Al's security people rely on questioning and how people react to it-I've had the same thing in France.  A very friendly chat about where I've been with who and where I'm headed.  Once in Charles de Gaulle my wife and kids were shopping near the gate, I was sitting by myself and a security officer came over and sat beside me.   He asked me why I was travelling with my family but they were sitting in a different section of the plane(Continental's total screwup), where my alleged family was (By the way, where are they?)etc.  Very polite and friendly, but obviously something tipped them off to come talk to me at the gate.
Some funny French security stories.  Back in the old days my BIL's would take us back to Paris.  We'd check in, have our carry-on searched and stamped, then we'd go back to the parking lot where my inlaws would have a last meal for us in a van.  After lunch and wine we'd waltz past security because our carry-ons had already been searched.  About 4 years ago standing in the checkout line the security agent pulled us aside.  She asked us to pick 3 suitcases to be searched.  I asked her if it wouldn't be better if she just picked 3 but she was adamant that we pick 3.  Later(after we got home) we all joked that we had picked the three bags with no bombs or guns.
I'm all for safety on airplanes but these searches are absurd and only serve to distract us from the fact that the government has no real clue about how to keep airplanes safe from terrorists.  It's giving a false sense of security and in my view one more step towards convincing us to relinquish all our rights in the name of safety from th boogeyman.

[a10t2]

With that in mind let me ask this: If these security measures were in place prior to 9/11 would things of happened the way they did?

Probably. The major factor on 9/11 wasn't the ridiculously inadequate weapons, it was that the passengers assumed that if they cooperated they wouldn't be harmed. If not box cutters, it would have been seven inch screwdrivers.

[lonnie mac]

The answer to why El Al works so well? Other countries? Profiling. No. Not everyone is searched at all. You are profiled, then you get the ringer. We are going about things the wrong way here.

[capozzoli]

So is it correct to say we dont profile here because of political correctness? They racially profile right? I must have fit the profile several times. BTW I have no specific ethnic appearance.

Why don't they profile here? Makes perfect sense.

The questioning and search for a reaction makes sense, that is what they did to me in Great Britain. I wish I could remember some of the questions. Some were weird.

If the terrorists got onto one of our planes now,with seven inch screw drivers, I wonder what would happen.

One a different note, I used to fly  to Amsterdam on Air Pakistan. First time I was a little worried. Man, best flights I have ever been on. Restaurant quality food and plenty of it. They ask if you want an American, European or Pakistani meal. I always ordered Pakistani and it was always fantastic. Crazy right? No booze though.

[lonnie mac]

Well, racially or not, we certainly know what went down on 9/11, underwear bomber, etc... I have not traveled in about a year now. Right before all this new stuff went into effect. As a southern hillbilly hick, looking quite hippish, I am sure they would put me in the special Bob Dylan room!

It's not about race, yet it is... But when a card carrying ARMY vet has to remove his fake arm that was blown off in Iraq and still get's the rundown, I start drawing lines between reality and politics my friend... But that's just me.

[tschmidlin]

I'm with punatic and some others, it is invasive and doesn't really do anything to keep us safe.  But if they insist, I don't want to be shot with radiation and I don't want them touching me, but I wouldn't mind stripping down if they really want to know what I'm hiding.

Racial profiling does not work and studies show it can actually make the officers jobs harder to do.  What does work, and what the Israeli's do is behavioral profiling.  Every single person is questioned and their answers and manner are evaluated.

There doesn't seem to be any logic to some of these things either, I don't remember where I first read it but check out this story:
TSA confiscates heavily-armed soldiers' nail-clippers

The bottom line is, I don't believe it makes us safer.  Harden the cockpit door, and the pilot can land if there's any trouble in the cabin.  And if there is, they can just depressurize the cabin and drop the air masks, that will keep trouble makers close to a seat . . .