[jklinck]

+1 to yso191 for yeasts and temps.

I just brewed with belle saison (nice to not mess  with a starter)
1.052-1002 in two weeks (1.008 week 1). 
Light grapefruit, citrus, dry, tart with med mouthfeel.
temps mid 66F - 74F

That looks very similar to Wyeast 3711 with the high attenuation at lower temperatures and med mouthfeel.

[jklinck]

Thanks, never used horizon before but will keep that in mind.

As far as Belgian brewers practices and homebrewers I will remind y'all we ain't Belgian brewers.

Yup.

The problem I have with an uncontrolled, high temperature ramp is keeping the temperature up as fermentation slows. I can get the temp up to 80F, but even in an insulated fridge with a brew belt, a 5 gal bucket of wort isnt enough thermal mass to hold that temp until fermentation is complete.

This is the main reason why (I think) I've had fusel/phenol problems with Belgian beers in the past. Its a double-edged sword.

Pitch too low or control to 'normal' ferm temps = too low of a flavor contribution from the yeast

Pitch to high or dont control temp = temp drop at end of ferment, stressed yeast, fusels/phenols, poor attenuation.

Is this just a balancing act I haven't mastered yet?

Pitch cool around 65F and raise the temp by 3F each day. I find using a desk lamp instead of a brew belt works better for heating a freezer, just put up some aluminum foil up to block the light if you are using a carboy.

[kylekohlmorgen]

+1 to yso191 for yeasts and temps.

I just brewed with belle saison (nice to not mess  with a starter)
1.052-1002 in two weeks (1.008 week 1). 
Light grapefruit, citrus, dry, tart with med mouthfeel.
temps mid 66F - 74F

That looks very similar to Wyeast 3711 with the high attenuation at lower temperatures and med mouthfeel.

Definitely behaves like 3711 from an attenuation / fermentation point of view.

The flavor profile is fairly different. I get a lot more black pepper from 3711. The citrus and fruit notes are similar, but 3711 seem to be more pronounced (lemon zest, orange, strawberry). Again, my experience may be due to fermentation temps.

I didn't think the mouthfeel was all that out of the ordinary, but I did use a lot of wheat.

[drjones]

Transferred my first Belle Saison trial to secondary yesterday.  OG 1.056 (pilz, wheat, aromatic malts, 1 lb light jaggery, mashed at 148).  Made a 1500 ml starter 24 hours ahead.  Based on my refractometer (adjusted with BeerSmith2) it was down to 1.000 after 8 days (I should note that I did not even add any yeast nutrient to the starter).  I'm sure the refractometer estimate is not perfect, but this yeast clearly ate through the batch pretty ferociously.  I ferment my saisons in a small room with a space heater.  This one was kept at about 76-78 degrees after the second day.  In the past I've used Wyeast French Saison 3711 which has always worked well (no stalls at similar ca. 80 degree temps).  This one seems to have behaved similarly.  Just had a small sample, but did not take specific notes.  Had a "classic" saison aroma, though, and was already a very pleasant beer.  I will certainly use this one again.

[dzlater]

I brewed a batch using this yeast two days ago.
I don't have much experiance with saisons, so I can't really compare it to anything else.
Pitched the rehydrated yeast @ 68ºf, saw signs of fermentation after a couple hours.
After 24 hours I raised it up to 71º.
I plan on bumping it up another few degrees this evening.
I had trouble with my mash temps.
Started at 147º
After 45 minutes it was at 144º
I added some water and brought it up to 150º for another 45 minutes.
I am calculating 103% efficiancy. 

[hospter81]

I read the yeast specifications and it says that you have to inoculate at a rate of 1 gr per liter...so you probably use 2 packets per 5 gallon aprox in order to achieve that degree of attenuation. I know Danstar always suggests that for all their strains. But again, if i want to have a very dry saison like it should be.. do i need to inoculate at that rate?

[kylekohlmorgen]

If you're at a reasonable gravity (< 1.070), one rehydrated packet will do.

I had great results with just one.

Just remember to give it as much O2 as you can. It may not be true with this strain, but both WL and Wyeast suggest saison yeasts need more O2 than normal yeast for a healthy growth phase (12-15 ppm as opposed to 8-15 ppm).

I'm actually using this strain again for my next saison (brewday 5/5).

[dzlater]

+1 to yso191 for yeasts and temps.

I just brewed with belle saison (nice to not mess  with a starter)
1.052-1002 in two weeks (1.008 week 1). 
Light grapefruit, citrus, dry, tart with med mouthfeel.
temps mid 66F - 74F

Mine went from 1.048 to 1.002 in 10 days.
Temps got to around 78º.
I agree with the "Light grapefruit, citrus, dry, tart with med mouthfeel."

[nateo]

Belle Saison is close enough to 3711 for me that I doubt I'll use 3711 ever again. Belle Saison is a beast. My latest super saison finished at 0.996 with plenty of mouthfeel.

[kylekohlmorgen]

Belle Saison is close enough to 3711 for me that I doubt I'll use 3711 ever again. Belle Saison is a beast. My latest super saison finished at 0.996 with plenty of mouthfeel.

They seem (at least) very similar, if not the same strain.

[majorvices]

Belle Saison is close enough to 3711 for me that I doubt I'll use 3711 ever again. Belle Saison is a beast. My latest super saison finished at 0.996 with plenty of mouthfeel.

Glad to hear that. I have a brick at the brewery that I have been planning to use but been skeered.

[kylekohlmorgen]

Belle Saison is close enough to 3711 for me that I doubt I'll use 3711 ever again. Belle Saison is a beast. My latest super saison finished at 0.996 with plenty of mouthfeel.

Glad to hear that. I have a brick at the brewery that I have been planning to use but been skeered.

Do you use a lot of dry yeast in the brewery? How do you rehydrate - just warm water in the bottom of the fermentor before cooling in?

[majorvices]

Only rehydrate on beers over 1.065. I've pretty much switched my IPA and IIPA over to US-05 because I am using WY1007 on my other styles and I don't care for it as much in IPA/IIPA.

I've been using the WY saison strain but last winter when I went to make my Saison Noel I was told by WY that it was 4 weeks out. Guess people don't use that strain much in winter, so I'm happy to have a dry yeast option.

[nateo]

Only rehydrate on beers over 1.065. I've pretty much switched my IPA and IIPA over to US-05 because I am using WY1007 on my other styles and I don't care for it as much in IPA/IIPA.

Have you ever used K-97? It's really nice, along the same lines as 1007.

[dmtaylor]

Fermentation just finished on my first saison with the Belle Saison yeast.  Went from 1.052 to 1.002 in about 3 weeks.  I mashed at 149 F for 90 minutes.  I pitched a single pack at about 65 F, no rehydration, aerated well by very vigorous whipping/stirring for 5 minutes.  Fermentation began within 24 hours.  I left cool at 65 F for one day, then raised up to 72-73 F for the entire remainder of ferment.  Resulting beer tastes of pilsner malt, low Belgian lemon-like esters, low pepper, low to moderate alcohol warmth that I hope will mellow somewhat after a month or two of age.  Very pleasant beer, but I believe it needs a little more something so I am going to spice it, perhaps with lemongrass or even dill or basil or something odd like that maybe.  Perhaps even some olde gruit herbs.