[klickitat jim]

Doesn't hurt to read, but the final pH may end up perfectly fine

[tommymorris]

Good news is now I have a quality ph meter so I can measure the finish ph.

[beersk]

Just brewed my first ever Helles.

1049 OG, 3 gallon batch
100% Weyermann Pils
17 IBU Liberty @ 60
WLP838
Water: 55ppm Ca from CaCL
1.25 ml Lactic 88% to mash

2 problems:
1. RO water from Glacier measured 87ppm! I used it anyway.

2. Ph measured 5.65 (Brunwater predicted 5.33)! I have a brand new Thermoworks 8689. Could be user error. But, I did calibrate right before measuring so I don't think so.

I may have to read through Jim's post on adjusting Ph after fermentation.

Interesting... I am curious what would have caused the large difference. And 100% pils malt, that is going to be a very light beer. I like my helles to be around 4 SRM...that one will probably be around 3 SRM... I know, big deal right? But, it might make more difference than you think. Doesn't matter anyway, it'll be a nice beer. But yeah, you may have to futz with the post fermentation pH. I've been adding acid to the kettle for my lagers, especially lighter lagers. I feel it's made a big difference in the finished beer. No more sweet finishing lagers (even though they finish at a low FG).

[tommymorris]

Just brewed my first ever Helles.

1049 OG, 3 gallon batch
100% Weyermann Pils
17 IBU Liberty @ 60
WLP838
Water: 55ppm Ca from CaCL
1.25 ml Lactic 88% to mash

2 problems:
1. RO water from Glacier measured 87ppm! I used it anyway.

2. Ph measured 5.65 (Brunwater predicted 5.33)! I have a brand new Thermoworks 8689. Could be user error. But, I did calibrate right before measuring so I don't think so.

I may have to read through Jim's post on adjusting Ph after fermentation.

Interesting... I am curious what would have caused the large difference. And 100% pils malt, that is going to be a very light beer. I like my helles to be around 4 SRM...that one will probably be around 3 SRM... I know, big deal right? But, it might make more difference than you think. Doesn't matter anyway, it'll be a nice beer. But yeah, you may have to futz with the post fermentation pH. I've been adding acid to the kettle for my lagers, especially lighter lagers. I feel it's made a big difference in the finished beer. No more sweet finishing lagers (even though they finish at a low FG).

I double checked with Brewer's friend. It predicts 5.65 ph when I put the water source as 87 ppm bicarbonate (swag from RO water TDS measurement). Maybe I am doing something wrong in Brunwater.

Regarding the 100% Pils malt: since this is my first Helles I thought I would start there. I bought ingredients for 2 Helles. The next one will have 20% Kolsch malt.

[HoosierBrew]

It predicts 5.65 ph when I put the water source as 87 ppm bicarbonate (swag from RO water TDS measurement). Maybe I am doing something wrong in Brunwater.

I don't enter my TDS value as bicarbonate, Tommy. I think that definitely threw the predicted number off. TDS can include calcium, sodium, magnesium, bicarbonate, chlorides and sulfates. Definitely wouldn't be all bicarbonate. I don't add any extra values other than 100% RO, but I look until I find places with sub 25ppm water. As for the pH reading, I assume you cooled the sample to room temp? Sorry for the dumb question.

[tommymorris]

It predicts 5.65 ph when I put the water source as 87 ppm bicarbonate (swag from RO water TDS measurement). Maybe I am doing something wrong in Brunwater.

I don't enter my TDS value as bicarbonate, Tommy. I think that definitely threw the predicted number off. TDS can include calcium, sodium, magnesium, bicarbonate, chlorides and sulfates. Definitely wouldn't be all bicarbonate. I don't add any extra values other than 100% RO, but I look until I find places with sub 25ppm water. As for the pH reading, I assume you cooled the sample to room temp? Sorry for the dumb question.

In Brunwater I left the RO water makeup unchanged. I only made that bicarbonate adjustment in Brewersfriend a few minutes as a test to see what that would do.

I did cool the sample. Meter said the sample was 22C.

[HoosierBrew]

Ok cool. And being an all pils grist, it would've needed a good acid adjustment. Any chance the acid addition was off? Just trying to understand the pH reading being so high.

[tommymorris]

Ok cool. And being an all pils grist, it would've needed a good acid adjustment. Any chance the acid addition was off? Just trying to understand the pH reading being so high.

The syringe I have for acids has 0.2ml graduations. I thought my acid amount was right at 1.2ml which is pretty close.

I think the Ph reading was at least partially due to the high TDS.

I hate driving for water. The next closest Glacier machine is like 3 more miles away.

[HoosierBrew]

Ok cool. And being an all pils grist, it would've needed a good acid adjustment. Any chance the acid addition was off? Just trying to understand the pH reading being so high.

The syringe I have for acids has 0.2ml graduations. I thought my acid amount was right at 1.2ml which is pretty close.

I think the Ph reading was at least partially due to the high TDS.

I hate driving for water. The next closest Glacier machine is like 3 more miles away.

Yeah, not a huge fan of driving for it either. I usually combine it with errands I can run in the area of the machines I use. Anyway, Kai's Edelhell recipe is mashed @ 5.55 pH and he drops pH in the kettle to 5.35 pH using 2 ml of lactic, as a rough gauge. Depending on how well you like the beer, you could pour a pint and add some acid until you like it, then scale up an addition to the keg. Keep us posted. Good luck.

[tommymorris]

Ok cool. And being an all pils grist, it would've needed a good acid adjustment. Any chance the acid addition was off? Just trying to understand the pH reading being so high.

The syringe I have for acids has 0.2ml graduations. I thought my acid amount was right at 1.2ml which is pretty close.

I think the Ph reading was at least partially due to the high TDS.

I hate driving for water. The next closest Glacier machine is like 3 more miles away.

Yeah, not a huge fan of driving for it either. I usually combine it with errands I can run in the area of the machines I use. Anyway, Kai's Edelhell recipe is mashed @ 5.55 pH and he drops pH in the kettle to 5.35 pH using 2 ml of lactic, as a rough gauge. Depending on how well you like the beer, you could pour a pint and add some acid until you like it, then scale up an addition to the keg. Keep us posted. Good luck.

Thanks. That's a good idea.

[beersk]

I've been adding 2-3mL of acid to the kettle to drop the pH when I shoot for 5.5 pH in the mash, based on Kai's .5mL per pound of grist (actually been using a tad less than that for safety's sake since I don't own a pH meter).

[HoosierBrew]

I've been adding 2-3mL of acid to the kettle to drop the pH when I shoot for 5.5 pH in the mash, based on Kai's .5mL per pound of grist (actually been using a tad less than that for safety's sake since I don't own a pH meter).

I added 2 ml to the helles I did and to the kolsch I've got 'lagering' now. I liked the results on the helles, for sure.

[brewinhard]

Just brewed my first ever Helles.

1049 OG, 3 gallon batch
100% Weyermann Pils
17 IBU Liberty @ 60
WLP838
Water: 55ppm Ca from CaCL
1.25 ml Lactic 88% to mash

2 problems:
1. RO water from Glacier measured 87ppm! I used it anyway.

2. Ph measured 5.65 (Brunwater predicted 5.33)! I have a brand new Thermoworks 8689. Could be user error. But, I did calibrate right before measuring so I don't think so.

I may have to read through Jim's post on adjusting Ph after fermentation.

Interesting... I am curious what would have caused the large difference. And 100% pils malt, that is going to be a very light beer. I like my helles to be around 4 SRM...that one will probably be around 3 SRM... I know, big deal right? But, it might make more difference than you think. Doesn't matter anyway, it'll be a nice beer. But yeah, you may have to futz with the post fermentation pH. I've been adding acid to the kettle for my lagers, especially lighter lagers. I feel it's made a big difference in the finished beer. No more sweet finishing lagers (even though they finish at a low FG).

I double checked with Brewer's friend. It predicts 5.65 ph when I put the water source as 87 ppm bicarbonate (swag from RO water TDS measurement). Maybe I am doing something wrong in Brunwater.

Regarding the 100% Pils malt: since this is my first Helles I thought I would start there. I bought ingredients for 2 Helles. The next one will have 20% Kolsch malt.

My last Helles I brewed earlier this year had 86/14% pils/kolsch malt and it came out fantastic.  Might have even had "it" after about 8 wks in the keg, even with no LODO brewing.   

[brewinhard]

Got a IIPA on deck for this Friday along with kegging up my blonde ale straight and other half on apricot puree.

[Wort-H.O.G.]

jealous of the brewing going on without me 

not likely to brew again until end of july due to travel and family trip to europe.  will start getting lager yeast into production in aug for the fall and winter production.

luckily, still have 20 gals of beer kegged, wine and mead to enjoy!