Author Topic: Martin B. is the man!  (Read 4763 times)

S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Martin B. is the man!
« on: January 26, 2015, 12:19:29 AM »
I decided to try a bag of Rahr 2-Row based on the positive reviews that this malt has received on the AHA forum.  I brewed an old East Cost-style lager today with an 87.5/12.5 2-Row/flaked maize grist.  I added no pH adjusting salts or liquid/dry acids to the mash.  However, I did make a small acidulated malt addition to the grist (~1.5%).  I also increased the Rahr 2-Row Lovibond rating to 5 per Martin's suggestion, which seemed like a crazy thing to do because Rahr 2-Row is not 5 Lovibond.  However, I could not believe my eyes after I cooled the mash sample that I pulled to room temperature.  Based on my water chemistry and the grist, Bru'n Water calculated a room temperature pH of 5.6.  Here's the actual number:



One thing I would also like to add is that the yield I received from Rahr 2-Row was as good, if not better than what I get with Briess 2-Row.  I obtained a weighted efficiency of 86% with a casual sparge. I formulated the recipe based on a lower yield because many brewers have claimed that Rahr 2-Row produces a lower yield than Briess 2-Row.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 01:32:13 AM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2015, 12:31:19 AM »
Yeah, I've had great results with Rahr. And I've never had a lesser yield than with Briess, FWIW.  Using 5L has been pretty spot on for me in Bru'nwater, too. And better flavor than Briess IMO - win/win.
Jon H.

Offline brewday

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
  • Chicago
    • View Profile
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2015, 12:48:10 AM »
Is this the Standard 2-Row or Pale Ale?  I use the Rahr Pale Ale (Harrington/Metcalf blend) quite a bit and love it, but it sounds like your talking about the Standard here.
Jon Weaver

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2015, 12:53:33 AM »
I've only used their 2 row.
Jon H.

S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2015, 01:36:18 AM »
Yes, I used Rahr's Standard 2-Row product. 

Offline brewday

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
  • Chicago
    • View Profile
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2015, 02:03:19 AM »
Martin, would the same apply to Rahr Pale Ale (3-4L) in terms of increasing the color rating by ~3L?
Jon Weaver

Offline Hickory

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Tapatalk User
    • View Profile
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2015, 03:04:23 AM »
I have yet to do all grain, and have no idea which grains are better than others, but I enjoy hearing Rahr get some love. The grand/great grandson of the Rahr family has a brewery  (Rahr and Sons Brewery) down here in Fort Worth, which is amazing.

Offline mabrungard

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2481
  • Water matters!
    • View Profile
    • Bru'n Water
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2015, 02:05:11 PM »
Martin, would the same apply to Rahr Pale Ale (3-4L) in terms of increasing the color rating by ~3L?

While I don't know for sure, it does appear that there is some sort of process that Rahr is conducting that makes their base malt a little bit more acidic than most. Since we often need a bit of acid in pale mashes, that extra acidity is welcome. I'm guessing that their malt either has some sort of lactic bacteria rest that infuses lactic acid or they spray some sauergut on the malt prior to final drying. Rahr is good stuff.
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/Brun-Water-464551136933908/?ref=bookmarks

Offline morticaixavier

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7782
  • Underhill VT
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2015, 02:53:08 PM »
Even just an extra long steep step or slightly lowered aeration during the respiration or germination steps could easily lead to a higher lactic bacteria load on the grains than other malt houses.

it doesn't take long at all for a batch of malt to go from smelling like fresh cut cucumbers to slightly yogurty funk if you don't give it enough air.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time"
-A Einstein

"errors are [...] the portals of discovery"
- J Joyce

Offline coolman26

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 804
    • View Profile
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2015, 04:52:02 PM »
Since Rahr is my favorite base malt, this is good to know.  My ph has been off just a bit.  I thought it had to be my meter or something.  On other beers using other base malts it has matched my Bru water figures.  You are correct, Martin is the man.  I really like Rahr Pale Ale malt.  My numbers on my last batch using it matched my predicted ph almost perfectly, so it may not be the same for this malt.  Great info thanks!   
Jeff B

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • View Profile
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2015, 05:25:20 PM »
been using mostly german and UK malts lately. my PH projections were off vs actual. i've left my lovibond alone in bru'nwater, and changed the base malts to crystal setting....pretty darn close to projected vs actual now.

EDIT: this weekends as example. brewed pale ale with avangard base malts. leaving the base malts as base malt, projected PH 5.4 (where I wanted it). instead, changed base malts to crystal and projected was PH 5.23. actual PH of mash was 5.21...so i just added my baking soda and got to my PH5.4.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 05:36:48 PM by wort-h.o.g. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2015, 05:46:43 PM »
Ken, if I recall correctly, you are using RO.  It does not take much in the way of buffering to push the pH of RO water either way.  Do you know the chemistry of your RO water?  I assume that it is not zero TDS.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • View Profile
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2015, 05:51:58 PM »
Ken, if I recall correctly, you are using RO.  It does not take much in the way of buffering to push the pH of RO water either way.  Do you know the chemistry of your RO water?  I assume that it is not zero TDS.

i do use RO most of the time, but also during my quest to understand why my PH was off, I used distilled water. same results with distilled compared to my RO water and PH of mash.

my RO water ranges from 8-13 on TDS meter.

EDIT: FWIW, I think Martin may be on to something with different maltsters and acidic treatment. lovibond is fairly consistent within a given range provided on their lot specifications. if there's acidic treatment, that would make more sense in the PH variations.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 06:02:02 PM by wort-h.o.g. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline ynotbrusum

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2939
    • View Profile
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2015, 06:48:33 PM »
Has anyone adjusted the spreadsheet when using Avengard Pils or Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pils malt?  Just wondering and I haven't taken a pH reading lately (I followed Brunwater straight up on my pilsners)....
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Martin B. is the man!
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2015, 06:53:30 PM »
Has anyone adjusted the spreadsheet when using Avengard Pils or Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pils malt?  Just wondering and I haven't taken a pH reading lately (I followed Brunwater straight up on my pilsners)....

I left Avangard pils as rated for what I entered in Bru'nwater and came out very close.  I hadn't taken a reading lately, either, and was curious.
Jon H.