[Joe Sr.]

Ha! This whole thing feels like buying a new car with awesome tires on it and taking them off and putting new similar tires back on, but in a special garage and in special way where it's believed the result is a better performing car rolling out after.

That trick only works Beemers. 

You know the difference between a Beemer and a porcupine, right?

Pricks on the inside!

Winner!

[tommymorris]

Has anyone considered this whole thing may be a late April fools joke?

[mabrungard]

Yep. And another thing I'm struggling with has to do with the many, many pictures I've seen from German breweries with large copper tanks, yet it's now a no-no. Martin is pretty adamant that copper is needed to drive off sulfur, so the alternative is a sulfur bomb with great malt character? I know sulfur dissipates eventually, but still scratching my head there.

The good thing is that wort only needs minimal contact with metallic copper to achieve the desired result. I know that my system has more copper piping than I would prefer. For the past 6 months, I've been wondering if it is too much. This paper added to my doubts.

[narvin]

The mini mash test requires only SMB, mason jars, and maybe 2 hours of time.  I just ordered some SMB.  I’m going to give it a shot and post my results in a separate thread. 

NB flat rate shipping to CA is pretty slow, so I probably won’t be able to do it until the weekend after next.

Definitely doing the mini mash test.  No promises, but might beat you to it and of course will post results.  If you're holding off because you don't have SMB, plain old campden will work.  That's what I'll be using. 

So will you just be looking for an increased quality in wort malt aroma and flavor at this point?  Will you also be employing low DO methods for your preparations? You may very well stumble upon the "IT" factor.

The recipe pdf thing formatted like a scientific study actually says your mash will have less aroma because without oxidation, it can't escape.  Or something like that.  This part had me confused. 

Why does this confuse you? From what I understand, the idea is if it's not oxidizing, the malt aromas are not escaping the mash, thus you can't smell them.

Because it's pseudoscientific garbage.  You will get aroma either way.  It will just be a different aroma.  Oxidation is not the cause of aroma.

[HoosierBrew]

Yep. And another thing I'm struggling with has to do with the many, many pictures I've seen from German breweries with large copper tanks, yet it's now a no-no. Martin is pretty adamant that copper is needed to drive off sulfur, so the alternative is a sulfur bomb with great malt character? I know sulfur dissipates eventually, but still scratching my head there.

The good thing is that wort only needs minimal contact with metallic copper to achieve the desired result. I know that my system has more copper piping than I would prefer. For the past 6 months, I've been wondering if it is too much. This paper added to my doubts.

Thanks, Martin. I think regardless I'll hang on to my copper IC as it's the one source of copper I use.

[blair.streit]

From the way back machine:

http://forums.morebeer.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30377

[beersk]

Has anyone considered this whole thing may be a late April fools joke?

Yes, but it's a lot of effort for a joke on their part. It really does seem to me to have some merits. Whether it's worth it or not is for us to try for ourselves.

[hopfenundmalz]

From the way back machine:

http://forums.morebeer.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30377

I read about it on the old HBD back in the day. We do it if not forgotten. We have never used the dosage they are recommending, or boiled and dosed at that rate.

It was said that coriander can be an antioxidant. Not sure if I want to taste coriander in every beer. 

[denny]

So, Marshall, Annie and I have been talking about ways to test the theory.  As part of that, Annie contacted a real, award winning German brewer...imagine that!  We're waiting for permission to release his name and the full text he sent us, but I can tell you it included frequent use of the phrase BS and concluded "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".  He made it clear that's NOT what happens in German breweries.

edited to add NOT.....

[HoosierBrew]

So, Marshall, Annie and I have been talking about ways to test the theory.  As part of that, Annie contacted a real, award winning German brewer...imagine that!  We're waiting for permission to release his name and the full text he sent us, but I can tell you it included frequent use of the phrase BS and concluded "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".  He made it clear that's what happens in German breweries.

Fantastic !  I look forward to seeing the whole thing.


Edit for lack of spelling skills

[reverseapachemaster]

Went to my local German specialty shop yesterday to buy some knockwurst and braunwurst. I asked if they had "it" that I could try. She suggested more sausage.

[pete b]

So, Marshall, Annie and I have been talking about ways to test the theory.  As part of that, Annie contacted a real, award winning German brewer...imagine that!  We're waiting for permission to release his name and the full text he sent us, but I can tell you it included frequent use of the phrase BS and concluded "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".  He made it clear that's NOT what happens in German breweries.

edited to add NOT.....

If we're lucky he will not say "what happens in German breweries stays in German breweries."

[beersk]

Went to my local German specialty shop yesterday to buy some knockwurst and braunwurst. I asked if they had "it" that I could try. She suggested more sausage.

Now I'm hungry. Thanks a lot, DUDE.

[narcout]

Shouldn't whether or not the process works be the only thing that matters?  What is the relevance of another brewer's opinion or how commercial breweries operate?

This should be tested the same way as everything else - brew the beer (following the instructions exactly as written with no shortcuts or substitutions) and set up a blind triangle test.

Given the zeal to prove these guys wrong, the best tasting panel would include people who aren't aware of the background and aren't biased against the GBF crew.

Edit - this is one my must see list. Several have said they make the best Pilsner they have had.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Museumsbrauerei_Schmitt

That is so cool; I never saw that page of the wiki before.

[dbeechum]

Given the zeal to prove these guys wrong, the best tasting panel would include people who aren't aware of the background and aren't biased against the GBF crew.

I suspect that will be my role. I'm skeptical, but it's just a process.