Author Topic: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?  (Read 1972 times)

Offline blatz

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Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« on: April 05, 2016, 08:42:49 PM »
In your experience, are Scotch Ales normally cloudy?  Recently made one, and its murky -pH was ~5.35, golden promise base, skotrat's boil down first runnings procedure.  A bit of a google search and it looks like a lot of commercial examples are cloudy also.  what say you?
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Offline pete b

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2016, 08:55:23 PM »
My limited experience is no. I've made a wee heavy twice with the boiling the first running method and it wasn't cloudy. The only commercial version I have had recently is Belhaven and that wasn't. Also, last year in the swap Toby sent me one, again , not cloudy IIRC.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2016, 09:37:29 PM »
I've had several wee heavy that were what I'd call hazy. Murky or cloudy might be an overstatement for these.
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Offline blair.streit

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 10:01:42 PM »
What yeast did you use?

Offline jeffy

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2016, 10:08:42 PM »
You may want to search the forum for a thread about cloudy beers using Maris Otter malt.  It sounds very familiar.
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Offline nspake

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2016, 10:30:29 PM »
Commercially, no. All the best Scottish and Scotch Ales (brewed in Scotland) are not cloudy. They are all cask-conditioned and fined and bright, as long as you get a good publican. As one other stated, Toby G. may have further comment as he brews them far more frequently than I. I use Edinburgh Ale yeast and it settles pretty well. I also fine with gelatin. How was your kettle break during the boil, do you recall? That's the only obvious thing I can think of it just too much protein and/or polyphenol material got into the ferment. It the haze temperature dependent (e.g. Chill Haze)?

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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 10:37:00 PM »
It doesn't sound like its had any time to age.  Have you aged it a bit to see if it clears?

Offline blatz

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2016, 10:57:43 PM »
What yeast did you use?

002, repitched from another beer that has brilliant clarity.

@jeffy - interesting - I do remember that.

Tastes and smells great just cloudy which is a bit detracting
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Offline blatz

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2016, 10:58:34 PM »
It doesn't sound like its had any time to age.  Have you aged it a bit to see if it clears?

It's been in keg for 10 weeks at 37-38df, had hoped by now it would have cleared
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Offline blatz

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2016, 11:00:06 PM »
Can't recall the break but that probably means it was normal as I would have noted (and been frustrated) if I got insufficient break
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Offline blair.streit

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2016, 11:07:39 PM »
I had a similar issue with a Scottish 60. I kept it for 9 months and finally dumped because I couldn't get it to clear. It wasn't contaminated, just cloudy and a little astringent.

Like Jeff I tend to blame the Maris Otter for lending more protein than my process was handling at the time.

Since then I've added Whirlfloc and a whirlpool. I've brewed other Maris Otter recipes with no issues, but haven't been brave enough to rebrew that one yet.

Offline VinnyV1981

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2016, 01:12:57 AM »
If you want it clear brew with some Irish moss. Works like a charm


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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2016, 12:54:30 PM »
It should be crystal clear at 10 wks with 002, thats for sure.  Maris otter could be the culprit, but even with that aging time it should have dropped out bright.

Offline toby

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2016, 03:34:50 PM »
In your experience, are Scotch Ales normally cloudy?  Recently made one, and its murky -pH was ~5.35, golden promise base, skotrat's boil down first runnings procedure.  A bit of a google search and it looks like a lot of commercial examples are cloudy also.  what say you?

No, they aren't.  It's possible the malt may be part of it (inadequate conversion).  The first runnings boil shouldn't be it, although it's unnecessary if you can sustain a good rolling boil for 2 hours.  Historically the reason for it was the challenge of getting a full rolling boil at scale.  Since they were basically doing a simmering boil, they'd boil for longer.  To get the maillard reactions and complexity they wanted, they'd boil down some of the first runnings.

The issue is almost definitely going to be a protein issue (protein and polyphenols are typical haze producers, but a scotch ale typically isn't going to be highly hopped so polyphenols from the hops probably aren't it).  What were your mash and boil parameters?  Some UK malts take a little longer to fully convert.  I do a barleywine style mash on my scotch ale (~149F for 90-120 minutes with a mashout of 168F water) and then a 120 minute full rolling boil.  Chill haze is obviously a possibility too.  Did you try letting it warm to see if it went away?  I'm assuming you used Edinburgh yeast?  It's normally a very good flocculator and will drop clear without any finings (full disclosure: I do use Whirlfloc in the boil to reduce the break/trub that goes into the fermenter).

Yes, there are some US commercial examples that are cloudy, but I suspect they are inadequate conversion issues.  None of the ones I've had from Scotland have been cloudy.

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Re: Scotch Ale - Cloudy?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2016, 03:37:11 PM »
In your experience, are Scotch Ales normally cloudy?  Recently made one, and its murky -pH was ~5.35, golden promise base, skotrat's boil down first runnings procedure.  A bit of a google search and it looks like a lot of commercial examples are cloudy also.  what say you?

As close as I get to Scotch ale is wee heavy.  I use Golden Promise, 1728, and do the boildown.  Ferment in the low 50s, cold condition after fermentation.  Brilliantly clear every time.
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