Author Topic: Pale vs Pilsner  (Read 3046 times)

Offline oscarvan

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Pale vs Pilsner
« on: March 15, 2011, 01:23:46 PM »
Hypothetical situation....

EXACT same recipe....but replace the Pilsner malt with 2 row Pale....

How much of a difference?

I know, you want more details. But lets just keep it hypothetical.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2011, 01:26:20 PM »
Hypothetical situation....

EXACT same recipe....but replace the Pilsner malt with 2 row Pale....

How much of a difference?

I know, you want more details. But lets just keep it hypothetical.

It depends on the other ingredients ;)  If this is a single-hop pilsner with no other grains, you'll notice a lot.  In a darker/hoppier beer, not as much.

I've used a 90/10 mix of German pils and munich malt before in my American IPAs to approximate Pale malt.  It turned out pretty well.
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Offline oscarvan

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2011, 01:34:06 PM »
OK,

Let's say we're adding some Crystal 40º maybe some Carapils and a turbinado sugar...some noble German hops, light on the IBU's...and using a Belgian high octane yeast. Shooting for an OG of just under 1.100 All in the spirit of the Trappists as Stan Hieronymus so emphasizes.

Reason I ask..... I'm sitting on 200# of two row..... ;D
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 01:36:03 PM by oscarvan »
Wooden Shoe Brew Works (not a commercial operation) Bethlehem, PA
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/WSBW/WSBW_All_grain_Setup.html
I brew WITH style..... not necessarily TO style.....

jaybeerman

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2011, 01:55:10 PM »
The previous post pretty much covers your question.  If you are still curious about malt read through the info in this link. http://brewingtechniques.com/bmg/noonan.html Then as you look through the grain that's available to you, you can get a BASIC idea of what character the grain would have.  For example, pale malt 3.5 srm vs. a pils 1.4 srm - you'll know instantly which would give the sweeter wort.  There are a lot of factors involved and you'll find that based on origin of the grain there are huge differences even within pilsner malts.  cheers, j


north american 2row or?

Offline denny

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2011, 02:16:41 PM »
Hypothetical situation....

EXACT same recipe....but replace the Pilsner malt with 2 row Pale....

How much of a difference?

I know, you want more details. But lets just keep it hypothetical.

Virtually no difference in most beers.  Pils malt is usually about 1.5L, pale maybe about 2.  In most cases, you'll never know the difference.

Jay, that 3.5 sounds more like pale ale malt than pale.  For instance, Rahr lists their pils malt at 1.4-2L and their pale at 1.7-2L.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 02:25:01 PM by denny »
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jaybeerman

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2011, 02:52:57 PM »
Virtually no difference in most beers.  Pils malt is usually about 1.5L, pale maybe about 2.  In most cases, you'll never know the difference.

Jay, that 3.5 sounds more like pale ale malt than pale.  For instance, Rahr lists their pils malt at 1.4-2L and their pale at 1.7-2L.

I was just giving an example of the biggest spread that you could find between the two types.  I agree that 3.5 was too extreme I should have said 3.0

For example:
Halcyon Pale - 3.0 srm (at the highest side of the srm range)
Best Pils - 1 srm (at the lowest end of the srm range)

At 20 plus pounds of halcyon (or best pils), a touch of c40 and little hop character, I imagine that you could tell the difference between the two base grains.  That's not to say that one has to be better than the other.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 02:55:34 PM by jaybeerman »

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 03:12:25 PM »
I think I'd notice a difference.  I had a barelywine once made with pils malt, and my first question was "Did you use pils malt".  I can pick it out pretty regularly.

But making a Belgian style beer with pale malt?  I think it would be fine to do.  It might not be "to style", but I think it will still be good.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline jeffy

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2011, 05:48:03 PM »
I think I'd notice a difference.  I had a barelywine once made with pils malt, and my first question was "Did you use pils malt".  I can pick it out pretty regularly.

But making a Belgian style beer with pale malt?  I think it would be fine to do.  It might not be "to style", but I think it will still be good.
I'm with Tom here.  I can usually identify pils malt flavor and sometimes it works well, other styles not so much.  My standard APA and IPA use pils malt as a base and I like their flavors, but of course the hops are the focus there.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2011, 06:18:01 PM »
Sounds like a blind triangle taste test is in order here.  ;)

My bet is that under the right conditions(recipe dependant) it could be distinguished. I think the difference will be very subtle, almost to the point of indistinguishable. Using 100% base malt, the color would be slightly different and the aroma would be as well. Flavor-wise is where there will be very subtle differences IMO.

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Offline Tim McManus

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2011, 06:29:50 PM »
We just picked up a 55# back of Weyerman German Pilsner and some Munton's 2-row.  You can easily smell the difference between the two grains.  We're also taking our IPA recipe and replacing all of the 2-row with pilsner.  That brew is happening this weekend.

I'll let you know in a few weeks if there's a difference.  I expect there will be.
Tim McManus
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beveragebob

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2011, 02:19:07 AM »
Depending on the tasters threshold sensitivity, one might detect the slight DMS flavor versus the slightly higher kilned and less apparent DMS attributes of the Pale malt. For most of us though, I'd say it would be a tough call either way.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2011, 08:48:43 AM »
I don't know, maybe I have a low threshold for pils flavors.  Double Mountain uses it as their base malt in all of their beers (porters, IPAs, all of them), and I noticed the first time I visited their pub.  I think it's one of the reasons some of their beers are good but not great.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline denny

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 08:55:20 AM »
Interesting comments.  I've never actually tried to discern the differences in 2 like beers, I was just guessing based on the slight color difference.  Guess I'll have to do a 'spurment.
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Offline oscarvan

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2011, 12:33:05 PM »
OK, I am happy with the responses. Sounds like only the developed sensory testers here would be able to tell, if at all. So, since I have a pile of this I will be using it. To get the flavor where I want it I'll use the right hops, and of course the WYE3789......yes, I am letting "the beast" in the brewery..... whoahaahahha.
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http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/WSBW/WSBW_All_grain_Setup.html
I brew WITH style..... not necessarily TO style.....

Offline ryang

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Re: Pale vs Pilsner
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2011, 08:02:02 AM »
Well I have this experiment going now.  I usually have my checklist when I go to the lhbs, but this time, I did not.  20lb of 2-row instead of pilsner.  Oh well.

It's going to be a very hoppy beer though, so I'm not sure the base malt will be noticed much anyway.