[punatic]

This scheme would collapse if the "Man" was not keeping the water powered cars off of the market.


Had some one tell me that at Big Brew.  Really.   

Well... fuel cells

hydrogen + oxygen → fuel cell → electricity + water

and

water + electricity → hydrogen + oxygen


Shuttle Endeavor is using the first part to generate electricty and potable water on orbit as I write this.
Electricity generated by solar panels can store energy as hydrogen - to be used to generate electricty via fuel cells when there is no light (at will). 

Or by direct combustion of the hydrogen and oxygen.

[hopfenundmalz]

This scheme would collapse if the "Man" was not keeping the water powered cars off of the market.


Had some one tell me that at Big Brew.  Really.  

Well... fuel cells

hydrogen + oxygen → fuel cell → electricity + water

and

water + electricity → hydrogen + oxygen

Shuttle Endeavor is using the first part to generate electricty and potable water on orbit as I write this.
Electricity generated by solar panels can store energy as hydrogen - to be used to generate electricty via fuel cells when there is no light (at will).  

Or by direct combustion of the hydrogen and oxygen.

I had mentioned to the guy that I actually have driven a fuel cell vehicle.  Really, I have driven one.

He was talking about the tank of water and some gizmos to turn the water into fuel (i.e. hydrogen).  The probelm with this is water has been already "burned".  There are some laws of thermodynamices that say what the guy was talking about is essentially Perpetual Motion.  The conversation was along the lines of something for nothing.  The supposed inventor had guys show up on his door step in black suits and sunglasses.

What you talk about will work, as the energy comes from the solar panels. That does not violate any laws of nature.

Edit - this was fill your tank with water, all of mankind's problems solved.  Nothing about the source of energy.  Google "water powered cars".  It is entertaining.

[weazletoe]

Still holding steady at 3.60 here in Pocatello. But, the way things work here is it will hold for a few weeks, then jump  0.20 in a week. I'm just waiting for that 0.40 spike here for memorial day. 

[maxieboy]

Hit $3.98. Woot!

[theDarkSide]

Prices have dropped a few cents in the last couple days.  A local Shell station is at $3.85 per gallon.

When are they going to perfect Methane burning cars?  I love Mexican food. 

[Beer Monger]

Went down 2 cents at the Arco in Federal Way, WA yesterday.  Regular is now $3.91. 

[dean]

When I hear or read about water powered vehicles it makes me laugh.  Supposedly these vehicles would exhaust water, onto the road... if you live in the north this could be a problem.  Jmo.   

[Beer Monger]

When I hear or read about water powered vehicles it makes me laugh.  Supposedly these vehicles would exhaust water, onto the road... if you live in the north this could be a problem.  Jmo.   

Actually it's hydrogen powered vehicles which would expell water - or rather water vapor as their exhaust.  And only small amounts. 

I think hybrids are a huge step in the wrong direction.  We need to devote more resources to hydrogen powered vehicles. 

[punatic]

Actually it's hydrogen powered vehicles which would expell water - or rather water vapor as their exhaust.  And only small amounts. 

I think hybrids are a huge step in the wrong direction.  We need to devote more resources to hydrogen powered vehicles. 

+1 on that!  Hybrids are for people who want to feel good about themselves.  My gasoline powered Accord gets as good gas mileage as most hybrids (33 mpg) without all of the battery BS.

I've been a proponent of hydrogen power since my 6th grade teacher (1967) showed my class about electrolysis and hydrogen combustion.  The main engines of the space shuttle are powered by hydrogen combustion.

The main drawbacks are swithching infrastructure from petroleum to hydrogen filling stations, and overcoming the strangle-hold oil companies have on the fuel markets.

[Beer Monger]

Actually it's hydrogen powered vehicles which would expell water - or rather water vapor as their exhaust.  And only small amounts. 

I think hybrids are a huge step in the wrong direction.  We need to devote more resources to hydrogen powered vehicles. 

+1 on that!  Hybrids are for people who want to feel good about themselves.  My gasoline powered Accord gets as good gas mileage as most hybrids (33 mpg) without all of the battery BS.

I've been a proponent of hydrogen power since my 6th grade teacher (1967) showed my class about electrolysis and hydrogen combustion.  The main engines of the space shuttle are powered by hydrogen combustion.

The main drawbacks are swithching infrastructure from petroleum to hydrogen filling stations, and overcoming the strangle-hold oil companies have on the fuel markets.

Yep.  Though I believe Schwarzenegger started making sure CA had some hydrogen fill up stations before he left office.  How many I'm not sure.

Mercedes has a fully funcitonal, 100MPH hydrogen powered car (prototype that never went to production, obviously) in the early 60's.  The tech is there, but like you said, the oil companies have a stranglehold on the market it seems, and try their best to hold hydrogen tech back. 

If we went hydrogen, you could even get a hydrogen 'power plant' to power your home (would hook to the natural gas line & extract hydrogen from the natual gas).  Theoriteically, you could generate enough hydrogen to run a generator to power your home, fuel your car and even sell some power back to the grid. 

[hopfenundmalz]

Hydrogen is an attractive fuel.  One drawback is that it either has to be stored in cryogenic tanks if liquid like the shuttle, or stored at high pressure to get the energy density one wants.  The fuel cell vehicle I drove had 3 tanks to store the hydrogen at 10,000 PSI.  They had to allow for expansion around the tanks as they grew considerably when filled.  The range was only about 200 miles, if I remember correctly.

Hydrogen can also be burned in an IC engine, which was what one BMW show vehicle did.  Or you can burn it in a rocket, like the shuttle main engines, or the upper stages of the Apollo rockets, the J2 engines.

[ccarlson]

Hydrogen is an attractive fuel.  One drawback is that it either has to be stored in cryogenic tanks if liquid like the shuttle, or stored at high pressure to get the energy density one wants.  The fuel cell vehicle I drove had 3 tanks to store the hydrogen at 10,000 PSI.  They had to allow for expansion around the tanks as they grew considerably when filled.  The range was only about 200 miles, if I remember correctly.

Hydrogen can also be burned in an IC engine, which was what one BMW show vehicle did.  Or you can burn it in a rocket, like the shuttle main engines, or the upper stages of the Apollo rockets, the J2 engines.

Just make sure your O-Rings are okay on a cold day.

[dean]

If hydrogen powered vehicles ruled the road, then it wouldn't be just a little bit of exhausted water on the roads and anyplace with temps below freezing there are sure to be accidents due to black ice... some of which if not most would be contributed by hydrogen fueled vehicles.  Should we heat the roads to prevent it... at what cost?

[ccarlson]

If hydrogen powered vehicles ruled the road, then it wouldn't be just a little bit of exhausted water on the roads and anyplace with temps below freezing there are sure to be accidents due to black ice... some of which if not most would be contributed by hydrogen fueled vehicles.  Should we heat the roads to prevent it... at what cost?

I'm sure the engine heat could be used to vaporize most, if not all, of the water. You already get a little moisture with gas engines. It's a byproduct of combustion.

[theDarkSide]

Maybe the car could have a collector to catch the water "exhaust"...and a special button to eject the water towards the sidewalk when you see someone you don't like