Author Topic: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?  (Read 16257 times)

Offline Stevie

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2015, 03:00:35 pm »
What is the shelf life of mixed bleach based sanitizer? I know bleach itself has a shelf life and I imagine diluting with water will reduce it.

Cleaning tubing and racking canes is the pits. I run hot water through them as soon as I am done with them and then soak with oxyclean. Blowoff tubing is the worst with all the crust. I try to replace it with a clean tube once fermentation slows, but that doesn't always happen.

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2015, 03:32:22 pm »
Its these places that don't get physically scrubbed that might be harboring critters and protecting them from a quick coating of star san.

It does not matter how well one cleans when the microbe is yeast or mold.  Star San cannot kill these microorganisms due to its mode of action.  Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid (the active ingredient in Star San) kills via attraction to positively charged cells (hence, the anionic part of acid-anionic).  Once inside of a bacteria cell, the surfactant goes about wreaking havoc on cellular function.  Yeast and mold cells are negatively charged; therefore, Star San is not effective against these organisms.

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2015, 03:40:10 pm »
Using distilled vinegar (5%) and drug store hydrogen peroxide (3%), you can create a pretty safe peracetic acid solution. If I'm not mistaken, its the same mixture that is used to pickle the lead out of old brass fittings. 

I don't know why we homebrewers don't use it more often. It is highly effective. More importantly, I feel that Mark is correct that we should hit our equipment with an alternative disinfectant on occasion. Why not do something that is so easy.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2015, 03:54:41 pm »
I have a lower standard for data. Given the ubiquity of a spray bottle of Star San in brewing and cellaring, the hundreds of thousands of clean batches of beer being brewed by craft brewers in this country are evidence enough for me.

I would love to know what a local craft brewery uses as a sanitizer because all of their beers are infected.  The fact that no one at the brewery recognizes that they have a persistent infection problem amazes me and most of the local brewers that I know.
If a brewery has a lingering infection and never addresses it, I guarantee that there is a lot more at issue than simple choice of sanitizer. That sounds like an operation that doesn't take quality seriously.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2015, 04:07:55 pm »
I have a lower standard for data. Given the ubiquity of a spray bottle of Star San in brewing and cellaring, the hundreds of thousands of clean batches of beer being brewed by craft brewers in this country are evidence enough for me.



Another  ^^THIS^^.  I have become a believer in a strong bleach solution soak a couple times a year as insurance against resistant organisms, but past that it's Star San for me. I've had zero infected batches since using this process, (and only a handful in 20+ years prior). I agree with Pete that sanitizing surfaces that aren't clean is a quick route to infection, and with Eric that a brewery with persistent infections has serious process issues that might not be solved even with a sanitizer switch. That and their ability to assess their own beers is utterly worthless.  ;)


EDIT - No bleach for kegs obviously. They get iodophor a couple times/yr. Same idea.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 04:22:42 pm by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline brulosopher

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2015, 05:13:08 pm »
You guys are freaking me out!

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2015, 05:19:01 pm »
You guys are freaking me out!

Why, Marshall? Too OCD, not OCD enough?
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Offline brulosopher

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2015, 05:25:49 pm »

You guys are freaking me out!

Why, Marshall? Too OCD, not OCD enough?

I'm honestly not sure anymore...

Offline troybinso

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2015, 06:08:01 pm »
Its these places that don't get physically scrubbed that might be harboring critters and protecting them from a quick coating of star san.

It does not matter how well one cleans when the microbe is yeast or mold.  Star San cannot kill these microorganisms due to its mode of action.  Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid (the active ingredient in Star San) kills via attraction to positively charged cells (hence, the anionic part of acid-anionic).  Once inside of a bacteria cell, the surfactant goes about wreaking havoc on cellular function.  Yeast and mold cells are negatively charged; therefore, Star San is not effective against these organisms.
Doesn't the physical action of cleaning do a pretty good job of cleaning off yeast and mold? I would think that the cleaning is at least as important as the sanitizing. Also, even though starsan doesn't kill yeast and mold, doesn't the physical action of rinsing with the liquid knock the yeast and mold off? I have no idea if this is true but it sure seems like it would help.

Offline jeffy

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2015, 06:17:54 pm »
Mark: starsan doesn't kill mold
Denny: starsan works fine for me
Me: Denny doesn't have an issue with mold
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline narvin

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2015, 06:25:10 pm »
I've seen mold grow on the moisture in a chest freezer.  But I've never seen mold in a jug of starsan solution in a chest freezer.

/probably means nothing

Offline Stevie

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Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2015, 06:33:59 pm »
My StarSan bucket frequently has a touch of mold on the inside of the lid. Nothing much, just some tiny dots.

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2015, 07:33:36 pm »

My StarSan bucket frequently has a touch of mold on the inside of the lid. Nothing much, just some tiny dots.

And that is above liquid level. That means that sanitizer does not get there. Splash sanitize on walls and lit every so often and you will not have the issue.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2015, 07:42:17 pm »

My StarSan bucket frequently has a touch of mold on the inside of the lid. Nothing much, just some tiny dots.

And that is above liquid level. That means that sanitizer does not get there. Splash sanitize on walls and lit every so often and you will not have the issue.

Yeah, I used to notice mold on my star san bucket lid until I started shaking the bucket every now and then. Went away after that. My conclusion? Star San may not technically kill mold, but mold doesn't grow on surfaces where Star San has had contact.  Works for me.
Jon H.

Offline toby

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2015, 07:32:26 am »
Doesn't the physical action of cleaning do a pretty good job of cleaning off yeast and mold? I would think that the cleaning is at least as important as the sanitizing. Also, even though starsan doesn't kill yeast and mold, doesn't the physical action of rinsing with the liquid knock the yeast and mold off? I have no idea if this is true but it sure seems like it would help.

Depends on your cleaning regimen.  If you have a glass carboy that you scrub with a brush and then have a washer/rinser that sprays with a high velocity, you probably get most of it off (spores can be pretty hardy, though, if there is _anywhere_ for them to hide).  Even in relatively hard plastic (like a better bottle or bucket), a soak in PBW/Oxiclean with a good carboy rinser and a microfiber towel will get you several good years of reliable use.  I have a hard time with the concept of using a plastic fermenter for more than 5 or 6 years just due to wear and tear (less problem with a mash tun though).

In a pro brewery, they clean in place, and the biggest source of problems is going to be T or similar joint with 'dead ends'.  Maybe there was a sensor or another vessel there at one point and they removed it and capped it.  Now the CIP solution won't flow there, and it can now harbor all sorts of things.  I wouldn't be surprised if the aforementioned pro brewery had a problem along those lines.