Author Topic: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?  (Read 16259 times)

Offline pete b

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2015, 07:45:36 am »
Its these places that don't get physically scrubbed that might be harboring critters and protecting them from a quick coating of star san.

It does not matter how well one cleans when the microbe is yeast or mold.  Star San cannot kill these microorganisms due to its mode of action.  Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid (the active ingredient in Star San) kills via attraction to positively charged cells (hence, the anionic part of acid-anionic).  Once inside of a bacteria cell, the surfactant goes about wreaking havoc on cellular function.  Yeast and mold cells are negatively charged; therefore, Star San is not effective against these organisms.
My point was that if something is soiled, star san, or any other sanitizer may not work.
I actually suspect if equipment is able to be scrubbed with soap and water or oxyclean the introduction of a big culture of the desired yeast and the resulting alcohol and ph is all you will need. To me the soak I give my equipment in sanitizer like star san is an added precaution, its the thorough cleaning that's important. I stopped getting infections when I took apart the spigot on my bottling bucket and removed the tube from my racking cane and cleaned after each use.
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2015, 07:52:03 am »
With the exception of my last two all-grain beers, I've never had a noticeable infection when using star san. That's even for beers brewed in spring/summer/fall in a very hot and muggy area. Even the extract batches I've done since the infections have been fine.

That being said, I'm paranoid about cleaning. Sometimes I don't finish cleaning all my gear till the next day. I feel like improving to a "best practice" for sanitization will lessen the odds of that biting me.

Note: I still scrub everything meticulously, it's definitely clean when it's sanitized. I just worry about some bacteria or mold spores that don't get completely flushed away in the cleaning process.

I guess when I start yeast culturing I'll get a better feel for where my sanitization practices are.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

S. cerevisiae

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2015, 08:35:06 am »
If a brewery has a lingering infection and never addresses it, I guarantee that there is a lot more at issue than simple choice of sanitizer. That sounds like an operation that doesn't take quality seriously.

Eric, if you read their literature, you would believe that they can at least take several steps on water before going down.  They talk about how special their water and hops are to their brews.  What's special about their brews compared to other local breweries is that they are all infected.

S. cerevisiae

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2015, 08:51:38 am »
Doesn't the physical action of cleaning do a pretty good job of cleaning off yeast and mold? I would think that the cleaning is at least as important as the sanitizing. Also, even though starsan doesn't kill yeast and mold, doesn't the physical action of rinsing with the liquid knock the yeast and mold off? I have no idea if this is true but it sure seems like it would help.

I believe that Star San's limited activity is less of a problem for those who use stainless and glass.  Those two materials need very little in the way of sanitizing after a through cleaning and hot water rinse.  In fact, I stopped sanitizing my soda kegs for a number of years after cleaning them with unscented automatic dishwasher powder and rinsing with a chlorinated hot water supply (I used chlorinated trisodium phosphate before switching to unscented automatic dishwashing detergent because I could not longer get CTSP).   More porous and easily scratched materials can be a totally different animal.  Yeast cells only visible to the naked eye when they are aggregated.

Here's a case study other than mine.  A local brewer had one heck of a Brettanomyces contamination issue.  His entire brewery was contaminated.  We convinced him to try another sanitizer, and a local brewer provided him with peracetic acid.  He had fought that infection for years with no success while continuing to swear by Star San like every other home brewer who has bought into the hype.  Peracetic acid laid waste to it.

Offline Stevie

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2015, 09:11:23 am »
A brew buddy uses this pink stuff, j-512 sanitizer. Anybody know much about it? MSDS shows it's alcohol based.

Offline denny

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2015, 09:27:19 am »
Mark: starsan doesn't kill mold
Denny: starsan works fine for me
Me: Denny doesn't have an issue with mold

Not on any kind of regular basis.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2015, 10:19:20 am »
Note: I still scrub everything meticulously, it's definitely clean when it's sanitized. I just worry about some bacteria or mold spores that don't get completely flushed away in the cleaning process.

From what little I know about Brett species, the big sanitation problem is their ability to form biofilms. Not nearly as much of a concern if you mechanically scrub your equipment.
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2015, 10:50:28 am »
I said scrub as in clean, though everything but my hoses get literally scrubbed. Those cold-side hoses I tend to replace regularly, so any growing sanitation concerns wouldn't become apparent.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

S. cerevisiae

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2015, 11:40:28 am »
What's wild is that my plastic gear used to live a bleach bath during the first two and a half to three years that I brewed.  I was using home cultured yeast during that entire period, and I never experienced an infection or a chlorine-based off-flavor.  My clear plastic tubing changed color to translucent white from living in bleach.

Offline charles1968

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2015, 12:31:34 pm »
I use bleach to clean plastic equipment after use but starsan or saniclean for sanitising bottles. Bottles rinsed very thoroughly immediately after pouring beer.

Organic residue can collect in places you dont scrub - inside racking canes, siphon tubes and in plastic taps. They all get bleached.

Sunlight and desiccation are free sanitisers so I also like to leave equipment outside on a sunny day after washing it. But siphon tubes can take days to fully dry out, giving microbes lots of time to fester on beer residue.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 01:12:29 pm by charles1968 »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2015, 12:36:40 pm »
Kegging tomorrow. This thread wigged me out so they are soaking in iodophor

Offline narcout

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2015, 12:46:17 pm »
At 12.5 ppm, Iodophor only needs a few minutes of contact time to sanitize. 

A long time ago the Basic Brewing Radio (I think it was them anyway) did a show with the manufacturer.  It's worth a listen.
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Offline pete b

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2015, 01:15:54 pm »
Kegging tomorrow. This thread wigged me out so they are soaking in iodophor

Doesn't it sting?

Oh, you mean the kegs are soaking in iodophor.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2015, 02:40:23 pm »
Kegging tomorrow. This thread wigged me out so they are soaking in iodophor

Doesn't it sting?

Oh, you mean the kegs are soaking in iodophor.
Pretty funny. Actually my fingers are kinda knicked up from skinning yesterday so maybe the iodophor sloshed over will be good for that too

Offline Stevie

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2015, 08:59:40 am »
Question about bleach and iodophor. Don't both need to air dry before use?