[troybinso]

I think that now we can get back to the original topic which was, if I recall correctly, whether or not the Brewing Network should have one the COTY award.

I heard the only reason they won was because someone brewed a Kolsch and won with it in the Helles category - and brewed on a picobrew no less. 

[Phil_M]

I've heard other reports of no chill beer being less good than a normal chilled beer. I would point out that the Aussie's preference for this method may have more to do with their desire to brew any beer with their limited water than their palates. Beer that's 90% perfect is still better than no beer.

[Joe Sr.]

Let's get past the BS details.  If you flew to Munich tonight (arriving in time for breakfast with a Hefeweizen as you walk through the MUC Airport Center and stop at Airbrau (I can never tell if they're open for breakfast.  Our flight always gets in late, but there are a few people around there).  Then took the regional into Munich and walked through old city and stopped for a Helles...would your beer taste just like that?  That's the test.  I completely agree with Marshall - it's not HOW you get there, it's getting there.  But there seems to be an abundance of confusion about exactly what a Munich Helles actually tastes like.  I am trying like hell to get there (and go to Germany enough to know what I'm after) and very little of the beer in the US marketed as Helles is like a Helles.

I've just read through the entire thread and WOW, I've lost my morning. 

It's my understanding that all five senses impact your perception of taste, so I highly doubt that you'll ever brew anything that tastes just like that first sip after you've just flown into Munich and walked through the old city to find the right place to have a beer.  Unless you pack some hombrew to take with you to sample side-by-side, you're relying on your memory of the taste of that beer.  Memory is mutable, just as taste is influenced by your other senses.  You'll never be able to capture in a bottle the experience you describe above. All you can really do is brew the best beer you can. 

On the topic of this thread, I have no comments on no-chill brewing.  I always have and will continue to chill my beer as quickly as I can.  I will not, however, lose sleep over my Helles not tasting authentic as I now realize that's likely a common problem.

[dilluh98]

I've heard other reports of no chill beer being less good than a normal chilled beer. I would point out that the Aussie's preference for this method may have more to do with their desire to brew any beer with their limited water than their palates. Beer that's 90% perfect is still better than no beer.

Yup. If people think CA has a water problem...

[BrodyR]

Let's get past the BS details.  If you flew to Munich tonight (arriving in time for breakfast with a Hefeweizen as you walk through the MUC Airport Center and stop at Airbrau (I can never tell if they're open for breakfast.  Our flight always gets in late, but there are a few people around there).  Then took the regional into Munich and walked through old city and stopped for a Helles...would your beer taste just like that?  That's the test.  I completely agree with Marshall - it's not HOW you get there, it's getting there.  But there seems to be an abundance of confusion about exactly what a Munich Helles actually tastes like.  I am trying like hell to get there (and go to Germany enough to know what I'm after) and very little of the beer in the US marketed as Helles is like a Helles.

I've just read through the entire thread and WOW, I've lost my morning. 

It's my understanding that all five senses impact your perception of taste, so I highly doubt that you'll ever brew anything that tastes just like that first sip after you've just flown into Munich and walked through the old city to find the right place to have a beer.  Unless you pack some hombrew to take with you to sample side-by-side, you're relying on your memory of the taste of that beer.  Memory is mutable, just as taste is influenced by your other senses.  You'll never be able to capture in a bottle the experience you describe above. All you can really do is brew the best beer you can. 

On the topic of this thread, I have no comments on no-chill brewing.  I always have and will continue to chill my beer as quickly as I can.  I will not, however, lose sleep over my Helles not tasting authentic as I now realize that's likely a common problem.

Exactly - kind of like how Hill Farmstead and Heady Topper just seem to taste better in Vermont. Theres a certain magic of being in a beautiful place that's the source of the style that probably effects our perception. And the random place specific asides like glassware, serving temps, & carbonation levels.

[rabeb25]

Let's get past the BS details.  If you flew to Munich tonight (arriving in time for breakfast with a Hefeweizen as you walk through the MUC Airport Center and stop at Airbrau (I can never tell if they're open for breakfast.  Our flight always gets in late, but there are a few people around there).  Then took the regional into Munich and walked through old city and stopped for a Helles...would your beer taste just like that?  That's the test.  I completely agree with Marshall - it's not HOW you get there, it's getting there.  But there seems to be an abundance of confusion about exactly what a Munich Helles actually tastes like.  I am trying like hell to get there (and go to Germany enough to know what I'm after) and very little of the beer in the US marketed as Helles is like a Helles.

I've just read through the entire thread and WOW, I've lost my morning. 

It's my understanding that all five senses impact your perception of taste, so I highly doubt that you'll ever brew anything that tastes just like that first sip after you've just flown into Munich and walked through the old city to find the right place to have a beer.  Unless you pack some hombrew to take with you to sample side-by-side, you're relying on your memory of the taste of that beer.  Memory is mutable, just as taste is influenced by your other senses.  You'll never be able to capture in a bottle the experience you describe above. All you can really do is brew the best beer you can. 

Not necessarily, we can and do get fresh examples here that are spot on. So we CAN and DO sample and calibrate. I'll be the first to tell you my "authentic" Helles misses the mark(but its pretty close). But in that same breath I can also tell you a single infusion, non german malt, ale yeast will as well. Which is totally fine to me also..you know different strokes and all that.  My issue was with someone not in the know, buying a kit that said it's a Helles, brewing it hoping for angels pissing on your tounge and getting a blone ale.

[tommymorris]

So if you stick your kettle in a chest freezer for a few hours to bring down the temp is that no chill, slow/medium chill, or quick chill?

If I want to save water that seems like a better faster alternative than  filling a plastic jug and waiting overnight to get to room temp. Of course my kettle is small and light (3 gallon batches).

[jeffy]

I've heard other reports of no chill beer being less good than a normal chilled beer. I would point out that the Aussie's preference for this method may have more to do with their desire to brew any beer with their limited water than their palates. Beer that's 90% perfect is still better than no beer.

Yup. If people think CA has a water problem...

One of my nephews has made quite a fortune making and selling rain water tanks in Australia.  I think this would be a good business to start in California.

[stpug]

My issue was with someone not in the know, buying a kit that said it's a Helles, brewing it hoping for angels pissing on your tongue and getting a blonde ale.

Reminds me of the "Coopers Lager Kit" everyone started with in the 90s. We're going to brew a lager, we said.

[Stevie]

I've heard other reports of no chill beer being less good than a normal chilled beer. I would point out that the Aussie's preference for this method may have more to do with their desire to brew any beer with their limited water than their palates. Beer that's 90% perfect is still better than no beer.

Yup. If people think CA has a water problem...

One of my nephews has made quite a fortune making and selling rain water tanks in Australia.  I think this would be a good business to start in California.

Extremely popular in Hawaii as well.

[charles1968]

My issue was with someone not in the know, buying a kit that said it's a Helles, brewing it hoping for angels pissing on your tounge and getting a blone ale.

I do think some people are (understandably) missing the point about the Brulosophy branded beer. The brulosophy philosophy is unashamedly iconoclastic and unorthodox. It's all about challenging preconceptions. The Munich Helles is sold as a German lager but is not fermented at lager temperature, does not have a lager yeast, is not lagered (at least not in a conventional sense), and is not made from German ingredients. It couldn't possibly be less Reinheitsgebot. But the point is that it's getting in the right ballpark by doing everything in an unconventional way.

My only criticism is the branding, which I think is too plain and literal. I'd have called it "This is not Munich Helles" or "Munich Duff" or come up with some other irreverent or witty name that references Munich Helles but doesn't literally claim to be one. I think the lack of irony in the branding is what's thrown so many people. As I said, understandable. And I do think Kolsch yeast makes cracking lagers, even though to my palate there's always an unmistakeable creamy Kolschness about them.

[klickitat jim]

Why am I hearing the Life of Brian debate in my head? Whether or not Roger has a right to Want to be pregnant, even though he hasn't a womb for the fetus to gestate...

[charles1968]

Why am I hearing the Life of Brian debate in my head? Whether or not Roger has a right to Want to be pregnant, even though he hasn't a womb for the fetus to gestate...

Judean People's Front?

[dilluh98]

What an age to live in! I can read nine pages of a derailed thread about the “German-ness” of a beer style that 99% of US beer drinkers couldn’t name.

It’s about as amazing as the other forum I follow: Minnesota Twins baseball - where we passionately discuss which middle relief pitchers are worth extending arbitration offers to or which C-level prospect might move from A to AA next spring or if it’s worth it to carry an aging 41 year old outfielder on the 40-man roster (problem solved guys, he's retiring). All of this riveting discussion in just the first week of a long off-season of a middling team.

[pete b]

Why am I hearing the Life of Brian debate in my head? Whether or not Roger has a right to Want to be pregnant, even though he hasn't a womb for the fetus to gestate...

Judean People's Front?

People's Front of Judea