[hopfenundmalz]

Quite. Brewtan B is NOT low oxygen brewing. I definitely notice a far bigger jump in beer quality with low oxygen brewing than I did with Brewtan B. I'm all stainless now too though, so I've been considering not even using the Brewtan. But I have it, so I might as well...

But back on topic, I would like to get my hands on sinamar. Is it something that needs to be used FRESH like liquid malt extract?
It's sad that 1% has such an effect. But I guess it'll make me find new ways to brew and create recipes. I was going to do a Marzen that is about 11 SRM tomorrow, but I maybe just cut the roast malt coloring addition altogether and make it about 7 SRM for a lighter variation, just for kicks. Maybe I don't even need roast malt. The only dark beers I really brew that I don't want too much roastiness in are black IPA and occasionally schwarzbier (rarely).

You may be all stainless, but malt will introduce trace elements in the wort. Found this.
http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2015_presentations/R0900_Ruth_Martin.pdf

YAY! I love it, I love people going out and doing research! I was always careful to point out there are other sources as well.

Well, thanks, but I found that for example. I have read about trace minerals in the malt, I think at the end of Palmer's Water book. Zinc is low in the wort, and yeast take it up quickly, and benefit from additions to insure proper health.

[hopfenundmalz]

Quite. Brewtan B is NOT low oxygen brewing. I definitely notice a far bigger jump in beer quality with low oxygen brewing than I did with Brewtan B. I'm all stainless now too though, so I've been considering not even using the Brewtan. But I have it, so I might as well...

But back on topic, I would like to get my hands on sinamar. Is it something that needs to be used FRESH like liquid malt extract?
It's sad that 1% has such an effect. But I guess it'll make me find new ways to brew and create recipes. I was going to do a Marzen that is about 11 SRM tomorrow, but I maybe just cut the roast malt coloring addition altogether and make it about 7 SRM for a lighter variation, just for kicks. Maybe I don't even need roast malt. The only dark beers I really brew that I don't want too much roastiness in are black IPA and occasionally schwarzbier (rarely).

You may be all stainless, but malt will introduce trace elements in the wort. Found this.
http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2015_presentations/R0900_Ruth_Martin.pdf

Good info. Thanks for posting.

You are welcome. I met Ruth Martin at SN Beer Camp. She runs the QA lab at Sierra, and is well respected in the industry. It made me smile when I saw she was the author.

[HoosierBrew]

Quite. Brewtan B is NOT low oxygen brewing. I definitely notice a far bigger jump in beer quality with low oxygen brewing than I did with Brewtan B. I'm all stainless now too though, so I've been considering not even using the Brewtan. But I have it, so I might as well...

But back on topic, I would like to get my hands on sinamar. Is it something that needs to be used FRESH like liquid malt extract?
It's sad that 1% has such an effect. But I guess it'll make me find new ways to brew and create recipes. I was going to do a Marzen that is about 11 SRM tomorrow, but I maybe just cut the roast malt coloring addition altogether and make it about 7 SRM for a lighter variation, just for kicks. Maybe I don't even need roast malt. The only dark beers I really brew that I don't want too much roastiness in are black IPA and occasionally schwarzbier (rarely).

You may be all stainless, but malt will introduce trace elements in the wort. Found this.
http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2015_presentations/R0900_Ruth_Martin.pdf

Good info. Thanks for posting.

You are welcome. I met Ruth Martin at SN Beer Camp. She runs the QA lab at Sierra, and is well respected in the industry. It made me smile when I saw she was the author.

Their Beer Camp sounds amazing, and the info that comes with it. I'd love to attend some day (assuming they keep doing it).

[Big Monk]

Quite. Brewtan B is NOT low oxygen brewing. I definitely notice a far bigger jump in beer quality with low oxygen brewing than I did with Brewtan B. I'm all stainless now too though, so I've been considering not even using the Brewtan. But I have it, so I might as well...

But back on topic, I would like to get my hands on sinamar. Is it something that needs to be used FRESH like liquid malt extract?
It's sad that 1% has such an effect. But I guess it'll make me find new ways to brew and create recipes. I was going to do a Marzen that is about 11 SRM tomorrow, but I maybe just cut the roast malt coloring addition altogether and make it about 7 SRM for a lighter variation, just for kicks. Maybe I don't even need roast malt. The only dark beers I really brew that I don't want too much roastiness in are black IPA and occasionally schwarzbier (rarely).

Not to push it too hard (it is free though) but our spreadsheet has Sinamar dosing incorporated.

One thing to note if I can piggyback on Brian's comment on the 20% reduction is this: in the sheet I calculated color based on malt AND sugar. I just noticed this after renewing my interest in Trappist beers. I'll have to change that to only apply the 20% to the grist.

[bigmunchez]

On a somewhat related topic - I've been researching recipes for my first irish red ale.  Reading thru various recipe threads, it seems that the colour of the final beer seems to vary from brewer to brewer given essentially the same recipe.  Some saying 'came out a beautiful red/ruby colour' other saying 'meh, came out kinda brown'.

Now obviously there are a lot of variables at play here, not least the malt/maltster chosen for the colour malts, but it got me thinking - could oxidation be a variable? 
Does a lower DO brewhouse produce a better red colour? Old red wines go a sort of red brick colour as they age don't they? Any thoughts?

[The Beerery]

On a somewhat related topic - I've been researching recipes for my first irish red ale.  Reading thru various recipe threads, it seems that the colour of the final beer seems to vary from brewer to brewer given essentially the same recipe.  Some saying 'came out a beautiful red/ruby colour' other saying 'meh, came out kinda brown'.

Now obviously there are a lot of variables at play here, not least the malt/maltster chosen for the colour malts, but it got me thinking - could oxidation be a variable? 
Does a lower DO brewhouse produce a better red colour? Old red wines go a sort of red brick colour as they age don't they? Any thoughts?

Low oxygen will result in a 20% color reduction, I wouldn't say it makes color "pop" more though.

[brewinhard]

On a somewhat related topic - I've been researching recipes for my first irish red ale.  Reading thru various recipe threads, it seems that the colour of the final beer seems to vary from brewer to brewer given essentially the same recipe.  Some saying 'came out a beautiful red/ruby colour' other saying 'meh, came out kinda brown'.

Now obviously there are a lot of variables at play here, not least the malt/maltster chosen for the colour malts, but it got me thinking - could oxidation be a variable? 
Does a lower DO brewhouse produce a better red colour? Old red wines go a sort of red brick colour as they age don't they? Any thoughts?

Low oxygen will result in a 20% color reduction, I wouldn't say it makes color "pop" more though.

Yes, does this hold true for darker beers as well (munich dunkels, bocks, brown ales, schwarzbiers, etc)?

[The Beerery]

On a somewhat related topic - I've been researching recipes for my first irish red ale.  Reading thru various recipe threads, it seems that the colour of the final beer seems to vary from brewer to brewer given essentially the same recipe.  Some saying 'came out a beautiful red/ruby colour' other saying 'meh, came out kinda brown'.

Now obviously there are a lot of variables at play here, not least the malt/maltster chosen for the colour malts, but it got me thinking - could oxidation be a variable? 
Does a lower DO brewhouse produce a better red colour? Old red wines go a sort of red brick colour as they age don't they? Any thoughts?

Low oxygen will result in a 20% color reduction, I wouldn't say it makes color "pop" more though.

Yes, does this hold true for darker beers as well (munich dunkels, bocks, brown ales, schwarzbiers, etc)?

All beers across the board for me, specifically those in the mid-color range.

[brewinhard]

Wow!  20% seems pretty high. I have seen your wort color comparisons and finished beer comparisons as well. Interesting. Thanks!

[The Beerery]

Take for instance my last marzen, which was spunded like Wednesday. It was something like 80% Munich I, 15% pils, and 5% caramunich III, and it's still to light. Next go round will have 8% CM. It's probably 8ish srm.



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[HoosierBrew]

Wow!  20% seems pretty high. I have seen your wort color comparisons and finished beer comparisons as well. Interesting. Thanks!

I wouldn't doubt that my APA is that much lighter. Same grist, same bags of malt (double weighed because I'm OCD), same yeast, etc.

[The Beerery]

Having brewed a schwarz recently it reminded me to chime in on this post. My schwarz used 2% carafa II. Roast is certainly present in the flavor and while I would call it intense, it's clean and flavorful. It doesn't have the same typical normal flavors when used.  My best descriptor would be intense yet clean. Just an FYI since this is the roast thread.


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[beersk]

Having brewed a schwarz recently it reminded me to chime in on this post. My schwarz used 2% carafa II. Roast is certainly present in the flavor and while I would call it intense, it's clean and flavorful. It doesn't have the same typical normal flavors when used.  My best descriptor would be intense yet clean. Just an FYI since this is the roast thread.


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I think that's a good way to put the flavors I was getting in my recent black IPA (which kicked last night). Way more intense than normal, but clean tasting. It did overpower the hops, though, unfortunately, but it was still a nice beer. I'll likely lower the amount next time. This beer has 7% Midnight wheat typically. I'll probably lower it to 5% and maybe up the hops.

[mabrungard]

So if roast flavors are more intense in a LODO beer, which approach is going to be better for moderating them?

1. Reducing the quantities of your standard roast grains, or
2. Using roast grains that have lower color rating?

[bjanat]

So if roast flavors are more intense in a LODO beer, which approach is going to be better for moderating them?

1. Reducing the quantities of your standard roast grains, or
2. Using roast grains that have lower color rating?

Or cold steeping


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