Author Topic: Understanding Diastatic power  (Read 1920 times)

Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

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Understanding Diastatic power
« on: May 25, 2017, 08:40:50 PM »
I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around diastatic power.  This all started when I was continuously unhappy with the quality of my beers containing Munich malt.  They all have a similar sweet, almost caramel like flavor that tastes nothing like the commercial Munich containing beers that I love.

I know that it’s on the low scale for diastatic power and I don’t know I am certain I understand exactly what that means.  All I know is that based on what I am reading it might be linked to this flavor I am getting.  Am I not getting a good conversion and ending up with less fermentable sugar?   

I would love to know how to fix it.   

Offline denny

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2017, 09:18:21 PM »
Your malt analysis should have a rating for DP, often expressed in degrees L.  IIRC, as long as it's above 25 the malt should convert itself.  Frankly, though, I don't know if that's your problem.  I've never had any problems getting a variety of Munich malts, both continental and domestic, to convert.  One way to find out oif that's the issue of to use Kai's conversion efficiency chart.  It shows a theoretical maximum gravity for various mash ratios.  Using your ratio, you compare the graivity of your mash runoff to the chart.  You can find it and explanations here....http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Troubleshooting_Brewhouse_Efficiency#Determining_Conversion_Efficiency .  That will either confirm what you're thinking or show you that you need to look elsewhere.
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Offline Wilbur

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2017, 09:22:28 PM »

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2017, 09:40:11 PM »
Could be diastatic power, or could be something else entirely.  Tell me...... are you adding any crystal malts to these beers at all?  What temperatures are you mashing at, and for how long?  Do you use Briess malt by any chance, or what brand do you use?  What yeast are you using?  WLP820 by any chance?

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Offline The Beerery

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Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2017, 10:17:21 PM »
Caramel flavor is signature oxidation.  Munich is doughy, soft pretzel or outside of a soft pretzel.


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Offline narvin

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2017, 10:39:01 PM »
Caramel flavor is signature oxidation.  Munich is doughy, soft pretzel or outside of a soft pretzel.


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It could be this. It could be under-attenuation of converted sugars due to yeast health.  It could be something else.  But I'd guess that it has nothing to do with DP.  Unconverted starches are not going to be caramel sweet.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2017, 10:41:29 PM »
Personally I find under attenuation to be flabby, non crisp, and sometimes smarties like.  Never caramelly.
And I agree with that.


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Offline narvin

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2017, 10:44:44 PM »
The only reason I don't want to jump straight to oxidation is that I feel like a bit of oxidation hasn't negatively affected my dark beers, especially ones based on Munich malt.

It could be a combination of recipe (too much crystal) and oxidation.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2017, 12:09:59 AM »
It could be a helluva lotta stuff.
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Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2017, 03:48:57 PM »
Your malt analysis should have a rating for DP, often expressed in degrees L.  IIRC, as long as it's above 25 the malt should convert itself.  Frankly, though, I don't know if that's your problem.  I've never had any problems getting a variety of Munich malts, both continental and domestic, to convert.  One way to find out oif that's the issue of to use Kai's conversion efficiency chart.  It shows a theoretical maximum gravity for various mash ratios.  Using your ratio, you compare the graivity of your mash runoff to the chart.  You can find it and explanations here....http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Troubleshooting_Brewhouse_Efficiency#Determining_Conversion_Efficiency .  That will either confirm what you're thinking or show you that you need to look elsewhere.

Would this be the same mash efficiency beer smith calculates?  If it is, efficiently doesn't appear to be the problem. 

The Munich's in this recipe are 150L so I guess that's not the problem either.   

Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2017, 03:52:03 PM »
Could be diastatic power, or could be something else entirely.  Tell me...... are you adding any crystal malts to these beers at all?  What temperatures are you mashing at, and for how long?  Do you use Briess malt by any chance, or what brand do you use?  What yeast are you using?  WLP820 by any chance?

:)

This recipe is on 7.1% Crystal 60.  Mash was 152 for 60 minutes.  I use BestMalz Munich and Saf lager.   

Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2017, 03:52:48 PM »
I really don't think it's an oxidation issue.  I have never had issues with oxidation and this flavor shows up across all my beers containing Munich...ales and lagers. 

Offline denny

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2017, 05:47:05 PM »
Your malt analysis should have a rating for DP, often expressed in degrees L.  IIRC, as long as it's above 25 the malt should convert itself.  Frankly, though, I don't know if that's your problem.  I've never had any problems getting a variety of Munich malts, both continental and domestic, to convert.  One way to find out oif that's the issue of to use Kai's conversion efficiency chart.  It shows a theoretical maximum gravity for various mash ratios.  Using your ratio, you compare the graivity of your mash runoff to the chart.  You can find it and explanations here....http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Troubleshooting_Brewhouse_Efficiency#Determining_Conversion_Efficiency .  That will either confirm what you're thinking or show you that you need to look elsewhere.

Would this be the same mash efficiency beer smith calculates?  If it is, efficiently doesn't appear to be the problem. 

The Munich's in this recipe are 150L so I guess that's not the problem either.

No, it's conversion efficiency, not mash efficiency.  But if your mash efficiency is good, conversion isn't your problem.
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Offline denny

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2017, 05:49:00 PM »
I really don't think it's an oxidation issue.  I have never had issues with oxidation and this flavor shows up across all my beers containing Munich...ales and lagers.

Who makes the Munich?  What color is it?
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Offline ANDREW.GROGAN1

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Re: Understanding Diastatic power
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2017, 05:50:22 PM »
I really don't think it's an oxidation issue.  I have never had issues with oxidation and this flavor shows up across all my beers containing Munich...ales and lagers.

Who makes the Munich?  What color is it?

Most often Best Malz, Dark and regular Munich.