[Big Monk]

My local shops are experiencing a period of flux with their yeast selection. I have not had issues getting fresh yeast in the past, but my secondary store has stopped carrying Wyeast altogether and my main store has not been stocking fresh smack packs.

I have used 1214 and 3787 many times and will be experimenting with the Lallemand Abbaye Yeast (not the Fermentis Safbrew strain, assuming they are different). I'm not overly optimistic but am willing to give it a fair shake and see what results it gives. Personally, I like 1214/500 the most of all the strains I've used, with 3787/530 a close second.

I have an email correspondence going with Lallemand to try and get an idea of this specific strains provenance and flavor characteristics. I'll be testing it out in a few weeks.

[chezteth]

I'll be looking forward to your assessment. I don't brew a lot of Belgian styles. But, I do use a lot of dry yeast.

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[Big Monk]

I'll be looking forward to your assessment. I don't brew a lot of Belgian styles. But, I do use a lot of dry yeast.

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I am only brewing four beers for the foreseeable future: A Single, Dubbel, Tripel and Dark Strong Ale.

I want to know that this yeast does/does not provide a sufficient flavor profile for the "Trappist Style" beers I'm dedicated to before I start either:

A.) Having fresh yeast shipped to me or;

B.) Start culturing yeast

We'll see. I am going to test it on the same recipe over a few different fermentation temperature profiles. If one of them proves credible, ill then test that temperature profile in all four recipes.

[dmtaylor]

Lallemand Abbaye is the same dry yeast that I selected based on some research for trying to clone La Fin du Monde.  Yeast is in the fridge.  I probably won't have time to brew it though until August or September.  I will be stepping up dregs from actual La Fin bottles for the other half of the batch, then will be able to compare results directly at the end.  I expect major differences, but also really don't know what to expect.  So I'll be following this thread with interest to see if you get your results much quicker than mine.  Thanks.

[Big Monk]

Lallemand Abbaye is the same dry yeast that I selected based on some research for trying to clone La Fin du Monde.  Yeast is in the fridge.  I probably won't have time to brew it though until August or September.  I will be stepping up dregs from actual La Fin bottles for the other half of the batch, then will be able to compare results directly at the end.  I expect major differences, but also really don't know what to expect.  So I'll be following this thread with interest to see if you get your results much quicker than mine.  Thanks.

My first profile will be pitch at 64 °F and let rise unimpeded, which means in my basement area it will likely peak at 73-74 °F based solely on heat from fermentation.

[narcout]

I hope your experience is better than mine.  I wouldn't use it again.

[Big Monk]

I hope your experience is better than mine.  I wouldn't use it again.

This was the Lallemand version or Fermentis?

[dmtaylor]

I hope your experience is better than mine.  I wouldn't use it again.

What was your experience, in detail, please?

Did you underpitch and treat the yeast like crap on purpose like I'm gonna do?

[narcout]

This was the Lallemand version or Fermentis?

I thought it was Lallemand, but now that I've looked at pictures of the packaging, it was the Safbrew Abbaye (which apparently is now called BE-256).

I hope they are different stains, or prepared differently or something.  I'll be interested to hear how it works for you.

Do you live somewhere where it's difficult to get liquid yeast through the mail?

[Big Monk]

This was the Lallemand version or Fermentis?

I thought it was Lallemand, but now that I've looked at pictures of the packaging, it was the Safbrew Abbaye (which apparently is now called BE-256).

I hope they are different stains, or prepared differently or something.  I'll be interested to hear how it works for you.

Do you live somewhere where it's difficult to get liquid yeast through the mail?

Not really. I just figured I'd give the business to the local shop. I'm willing to give the yeast a fair shake. It's always a dream to find a dry yeast capable of the flavors I'd want in these types of beer. You don't know until you try it.

The problem is always this: either it's a dry English strain pawned off as "Belgian" ("ferment at higher temps...", etc.) or it's a relabeled Saison strain. I'm hoping this is different.

I've heard equally bad stuff about the Fermentis version. Terms like "bland", "one dimensional", etc. seem to come up on the reviews.

[dmtaylor]

Until more rigorously tested, I maintain a theory that Belgian yeasts, as well as German weizen yeasts, NEED to be treated badly.  And it probably doesn't hurt for some of the English strains as well.  At the prompting of Jamil Z and others, Americans have grown overly kind to these wonderful, characterful yeast strains, pitching at excessively high rates that they need to do their own thing, which turns them into something bland even if they're not.

But, I might be wrong.  I don't believe I am.  But I could be.  And I digress, somewhat, maybe.

Cheers all.

[denny]

Until more rigorously tested, I maintain a theory that Belgian yeasts, as well as German weizen yeasts, NEED to be treated badly.  And it probably doesn't hurt for some of the English strains as well.  At the prompting of Jamil Z and others, Americans have grown overly kind to these wonderful, characterful yeast strains, pitching at excessively high rates that they need to do their own thing, which turns them into something bland even if they're not.

But, I might be wrong.  I don't believe I am.  But I could be.  And I digress, somewhat, maybe.

Cheers all.

IMO, in my brewery for my tastes, I disagree with treating Belgian yeasts "badly".  I treat them the same as I treat other strains and get exactly what I want out of them.

[Phil_M]

I think "badly" is the wrong term...they shouldn't be abused, but they do need to be treated differently.

The only Belgians I've brewed in earnest have been Saisons, and they do love open fermentations and warm temperatures. (Bordering on hot.)

British yeast...I don't think we're brewing correctly with them at all, and the "right" way may be vary strain dependent. We often think of the Belgians when we think whacky fermentation processes...but the Brits are responsible for fish tail aerators, Burton Unions, etc.

[denny]

I think "badly" is the wrong term...they shouldn't be abused, but they do need to be treated differently.

The only Belgians I've brewed in earnest have been Saisons, and they do love open fermentations and warm temperatures. (Bordering on hot.)

British yeast...I don't think we're brewing correctly with them at all, and the "right" way may be vary strain dependent. We often think of the Belgians when we think whacky fermentation processes...but the Brits are responsible for fish tail aerators, Burton Unions, etc.

For my dubbels, tripels, BGSA, BDSA, etc. I treat them just like any other ale yeast.  High pitch rate, low temp starts, etc.

[Big Monk]

My new MO (for the time being with my known strains, i.e. 1214 and 3787) is as follows:

1.) 1.25 M/ml/°P, 5-7 minutes aquarium pump aeration.

2.) Pitch at 64 °F, in my 65 °F basement in a water bath to wort level.

3.) Monitor temperature but do not control it. It stays around 64-66 °F for the first 24-36 hours.

4.) Let free rise to wherever it wants to go, although ambient temperature and thermal mass of water bath seems to clamp down and limit this to 73-74 °F maximum at peak.



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