Author Topic: Milk?  (Read 6446 times)

Offline bluefoxicy

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Milk?
« on: October 11, 2010, 09:57:46 AM »
Using Whole milk here... Trickle Springs Creamery.

My Kefir is propagating RAPIDLY in this stuff... half a cup (2 1/4 cup batches, 4 days) and it's doubled in bulk.  Tasted the first batch, it's decent; I'm drinking the second.  Slightly sour but not "bad" or "rotten," definitely alcoholic but can't be more than 1%, fermented for 2 days at room temperature.

I'm having no trouble drinking this stuff... once the grains have grown enough, I'll be able to do 1/2 gallon or so batches, maybe fridge batches so I have some to drink throughout the week.  Double-ferment:  Ferment, strain into new container, put back into the fridge.

I must admit I find chilled Lassi and fresh milk tastier though.  This stuff has a chalky aftertaste; also I think I'd prefer it more chilled.

Offline beerocd

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 10:22:41 AM »
blender, blueberries, banana  ;)
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2010, 11:39:11 AM »
This is one product I have yet to try.

Some culinary uses I discovered online. Kefir is one of the main ingredients in Lithuanian cold beet soup (Polish chlodnik), commonly known as cold borscht. Other variations of kefir soups and foods prepared with kefir are popular across the former Soviet Union and Poland. Kefir may be used in lieu of milk on cereal or granola.

Hey Cap...what do you know about this one?

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Offline beerocd

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2010, 11:53:49 AM »
Cap ferments cabbage - not milk.  :D
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Offline capozzoli

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2010, 01:08:39 PM »
Alcoholic kefir? With grains? Never heard anything about it. I cant imagine that you can ferment milk with grains it will separate aka curdle.

What are you doing blue? Lets see that recipe.

The kefir I know is just a more liquid yoururt. Sometimes made with just whey. Basically cultured whey. That is what real butter milk is the liquid that is left over after churning the butter is culture, Butter milk. The butter milk we get in the grocery store is more like kefir.

"Real kefir" is raw milk that has the cream removed and has been left out warm for a time till it naturally cultures and gets thicker. No added cultures just like cream fresh. Creme fresh is the soured cream, kefir isthe sour milk.

Thats how I understand it anyway.

Hey, remember that movie Alien Nation?  The aliens got drunk on rotten milk. Maybe Blue is an alien.
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Offline bluefoxicy

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2010, 02:57:54 PM »
Alcoholic kefir? With grains? Never heard anything about it. I cant imagine that you can ferment milk with grains it will separate aka curdle.

What are you doing blue? Lets see that recipe.

Kefir grains. Milk. Time.  How much recipe can you get?



Offline capozzoli

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2010, 03:04:45 PM »
How did you make the kefir grains? Obviously no real grains in the cereal sense of the word right?  

Are you using whole milk? or whey. Is it coming up carbonated. I have heard this called "milk beer" but never saw those grains before.

We are talking about lactic acid fermentation right? Does it make alcohol?

The Japanese make something called Calpico which I bet is similar.  

I am intrigued.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 03:16:49 PM by capozzoli »
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Offline beerocd

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2010, 03:32:54 PM »
Alcoholic kefir? With grains? Never heard anything about it. I cant imagine that you can ferment milk with grains it will separate aka curdle.

Kefir "grains" are these cauliflower looking colonies of bacteria and yeast. You have to GET them from someone - you can't make them. They ferment the milk. You use them perpetually - strain from one batch and use them in another. They multiply, you can give em away, toss em, or sell em to some other sucker. They range from raisin size to golfball size. Yes, it can get as high as a whopping percent of alcohol because they are eating the sugar in the milk.

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/Makekefir.html go to this link - you'll get a Kefir PhD in no time.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 03:34:49 PM by beerocd »
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Offline capozzoli

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2010, 03:39:34 PM »
 Awesome. So what I have been buying in the Russian store that is labeled Kefir isnt Kefir at all. Kinda like grocery store butter milk isnt butter milk at all.

So Blue, where did you get your kefir grains? 
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Offline beerocd

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2010, 03:45:36 PM »
They have a powered mix of bacteria that they throw in there to thicken it up and it's kinda like kefir but not really. It does taste good and it's still good for you, it's just likely not the real thing. And they're temperamental little f##kers too! Temp of the house, not quite right ratio of milk to grains - changes the consistency of the kefir.

Get on yahoo groups - there's a kefir group there, or find a local Weston Price Foundation group and they'd likely share.
Or BFI would probably have some to share with you in about a week or two - they multiply like crazy.

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Offline capozzoli

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2010, 03:52:38 PM »
Does the milk have to be raw? 

Blue when you say whole milk do you mean that it has not yet been homogenized?
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Offline bluefoxicy

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2010, 03:55:18 PM »
So Blue, where did you get your kefir grains?  

Amazon.  Real-man-of-genius.

Does the milk have to be raw?  

Blue when you say whole milk do you mean that it has not yet been homogenized?

No, the milk is flash-pasteurized.  TSC doesn't use any antibiotics (on healthy animals at least) or growth hormones, and pasture-grazes their cows.  Pasteurization is done by raising to 145 degrees and then crash cooling, so the milk is thicker and creamier due to less protein denaturing.

Whole milk is whole milk.  "Cream Line" whole milk is non-homogenized.

Or BFI would probably have some to share with you in about a week or two - they multiply like crazy.

My sample was dust sized.  In 4 days (2 x 1/4 cup batches) it's become... a quarter teaspoon.  Next week maybe I'll have a tablespoon at this rate, we'll see.

I have to concur, these are growing rather fast.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 03:57:29 PM by bluefoxicy »

Offline beerocd

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2010, 04:04:34 PM »
Oh, I thought that 10 inch plate was your kefir.
I've made it with skim, 2 percent, whole, raw. The end product all kinda seems the same to me.
BFI if you want them to grow a little faster warm the milk up a little bit. Just above room temp - not high enough to kill anything.



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Offline capozzoli

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2010, 06:16:34 PM »
So this stuff is sitting out at room temp for days on end? F-in crazy.

I used to have this cook book from about 1850. It was American and was sort of a country kitchen guide. It was kinda like a fox fire book. Fox Fire books are awesome by the way. This old cook book had a recipe for Milk Beer. I dont have the book anymore but Im sure It was definitely a recipe for this kefir.

How does the first cultures get started? The nomads had to do something to get it going. Did they use animal dung or something?

Is it getting bubbles? Like slightly carbonated?  

I really love learning new stuff like this, the older I get I am running out of new things to discover. Thanks for posting this blue.

I have to try this. Top of my list.

Just ordered some. What are water kefir grains? Obviously I need the milk ones.





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« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 06:56:43 PM by capozzoli »
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Offline beerocd

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Re: Milk?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2010, 06:32:56 PM »
So this stuff is sitting out at room temp for days on end? F-in crazy.

How does the first cultures get started?

Is it getting bubbles? Like slightly carbonated? 


1)Yep, room temp for 24 hours It doesn't go bad, but once you get your consistency you go to the fridge to slow it down and it tastes better cold. You can leave it forever on the counter, but it separates into like cheese floating on whey. Whey is good for making bread.
2)GOD
3)No bubbles cuz you ferment it covered with a gauze or loose fitting lid.
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