[dmtaylor]

That's not a fair assessment.  MJ just repacks yeast from others, so this is just like saying "I don't like Lallemand because I tried Windsor once."  Uh, yeah, well, you used Windsor, so...

Indeed, Empire is probably just Windsor.

But if you try any of the diastaticus repacks, you won't be complaining about low attenuation, I can guarantee that.

Understood. The hefeweizen yeast, while having very good flavor characteristics, gives me poor attenuation. EVERY TIME. I think I used the west coast one once and that attenuated well. The Bavarian lager one was so-so. The workhorse attenuated poorly.

Thanks for sharing these experiences.

I'm honestly not sure what attenuation to expect from the M20 Bavarian Wheat as I believe that's a repack of Mauri Weiss which I've never seen sold in the USA.  And I myself haven't tried M20 (yet!).

The Workhorse is probably Lallemand London, as these are both known to average around 67% attenuation.  Not quite as "bad" as Windsor or M15 Empire, but in a similar ballpark, and all of these strains are in fact very very closely related to one another.

I'd kinda like to know what you're basing these guesses on.

Basis is hundreds of hours of thought, intuition, and consideration of all sorts of various sources.  I'm not saying you or anybody will like it, but for whatever it's worth, here's the results of about 200 hours of being a nerd.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16XRUloO3WXqH9Ixsf5vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit?usp=sharing

[Saccharomyces]

Here is an interesting data point.  S-23 went from producing sulfur at 52F to producing fruity aromas at 64F.  I have handled at least 50 yeast cultures and that is just bizarre.  S-23 is definitely a Frohberg culture that has maintained a large percentage of the S. cerevisiae genetic admixture that it inherited from its S. cerevisae parent, but it is definitely a hybrid S. eubayanus x S. cerevisiae yeast.  I have yet to meet a true S. cerevisae beer culture that will ferment strongly at at 52F.

[dmtaylor]

I have yet to meet a true S. cerevisae beer culture that will ferment strongly at at 52F.

I just had T-58 almost pop the lid off a cider within like 3 hours after pitching at about 60 F.  Granted, this is cider, not beer, and still warmer than your 52 F, but it does make me wonder what T-58 might be capable of at lower temperatures.

[Oiscout]

Pulled a hydrometer reading on my golden ale fermented with verdant IPA, ester bomb! For just a sample its pretty tasty


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[Bel Air Brewing]

Pulled a hydrometer reading on my golden ale fermented with verdant IPA, ester bomb! For just a sample its pretty tasty

It is just me, but any description that includes "bomb" is not something that sounds appealing. Fruit bomb, peach bomb, ester bomb, hop bomb, etc.

My goal is balance, with all flavors equally contributing to the taste experience, without any bombs going off!

[dmtaylor]

Pulled a hydrometer reading on my golden ale fermented with verdant IPA, ester bomb! For just a sample its pretty tasty

It is just me, but any description that includes "bomb" is not something that sounds appealing. Fruit bomb, peach bomb, ester bomb, hop bomb, etc.

My goal is balance, with all flavors equally contributing to the taste experience, without any bombs going off!

Diff'rent Strokes.  I'm going to try it, just to learn what it does.  Just like I tried S-23, knowing that I probably wouldn't like it but who knows until you try it.

[Bel Air Brewing]

Pulled a hydrometer reading on my golden ale fermented with verdant IPA, ester bomb! For just a sample its pretty tasty

It is just me, but any description that includes "bomb" is not something that sounds appealing. Fruit bomb, peach bomb, ester bomb, hop bomb, etc.

My goal is balance, with all flavors equally contributing to the taste experience, without any bombs going off!

Diff'rent Strokes.  I'm going to try it, just to learn what it does.  Just like I tried S-23, knowing that I probably wouldn't like it but who knows until you try it.

True. In my earlier brewing days, the mid 90's, a "hop bomb" would have been an enjoyable beer. Today, not so much. Funny how what tasted great a couple decades ago is now a beer to be avoided.

[Oiscout]

Its a terrible beer will probably dump it


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[denny]

Here is an interesting data point.  S-23 went from producing sulfur at 52F to producing fruity aromas at 64F.  I have handled at least 50 yeast cultures and that is just bizarre.  S-23 is definitely a Frohberg culture that has maintained a large percentage of the S. cerevisiae genetic admixture that it inherited from its S. cerevisae parent, but it is definitely a hybrid S. eubayanus x S. cerevisiae yeast.  I have yet to meet a true S. cerevisae beer culture that will ferment strongly at at 52F.

Try WY1007 or 1728. I typically ferment both of those at 52f and get strong fermentation.

[tommymorris]

Its a terrible beer will probably dump it


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What happened? I have a Porter in the fermenter now with Verdant. I tried a sample yesterday. It tasted pretty good.

[beersk]

Its a terrible beer will probably dump it


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What happened? I have a Porter in the fermenter now with Verdant. I tried a sample yesterday. It tasted pretty good.

I think you'll dig it in a porter. I like Verdant personally. Makes a nice bitter. Don't know if it's true, but I read somewhere it was the dry form of 1318. I can see that being possible...

[fredthecat]

Pulled a hydrometer reading on my golden ale fermented with verdant IPA, ester bomb! For just a sample its pretty tasty

It is just me, but any description that includes "bomb" is not something that sounds appealing. Fruit bomb, peach bomb, ester bomb, hop bomb, etc.

My goal is balance, with all flavors equally contributing to the taste experience, without any bombs going off!

i honestly dont know why people homebrew if they stick exclusively to styles that are extremely available commercially for an affordable price. if i only wanted pale euro lagers, i would probably just buy them.

i would guess the vast majority of people who got into homebrewing did it because they do want a "bomb" of flavour, and were inspired by a beer that was like a bomb in their mouth. i was.

[Bel Air Brewing]

Pulled a hydrometer reading on my golden ale fermented with verdant IPA, ester bomb! For just a sample its pretty tasty

It is just me, but any description that includes "bomb" is not something that sounds appealing. Fruit bomb, peach bomb, ester bomb, hop bomb, etc.

My goal is balance, with all flavors equally contributing to the taste experience, without any bombs going off!

i honestly dont know why people homebrew if they stick exclusively to styles that are extremely available commercially for an affordable price. if i only wanted pale euro lagers, i would probably just buy them.

i would guess the vast majority of people who got into homebrewing did it because they do want a "bomb" of flavour, and were inspired by a beer that was like a bomb in their mouth. i was.

There is a good reason why we choose to make:

Euro Lagers (Festbier / Helles / Pilsner / Vienna Lager)
Imperial Stouts
Barleywines

The issue is freshness. It is very difficult (if not impossible) to purchase a keg of (insert favorite Euro beer here) and have it brewery fresh. Most kegs purchased have only 30 days left on their 12 month shelf life. The flavor has been gone for nearly 6 months.

Light lagers age very poorly, as we all know. By brewing the above, we get the beer we like, and it is brewery fresh!

And, no bombs, please!

BTW...it is even a challenge to get a fresh keg of domestic beer.

[BrewBama]

Why brew beer readily available?  Many homebrewers enjoy the ‘maker’ aspect of the hobby. The end product is simply an inevitable outcome of the planning, prepping, processes, etc…. IOW, it doesn’t matter what style of beer is brewed, the pleasure is derived from the DIY. 

I have a friend who makes furniture for a past time. I like to smoke and cure meats, stuff sausages, bake bread and pizza, cook French, Italian, and Mexican cuisine, grill a steak or burger, garden, do my own landscaping/lawn care, fix my own tractor, etc. all for the same reason: I made/grew/did it myself even though much of this is readily available in the marketplace. I get great satisfaction when I offer something I made to someone and they enjoy it.



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[tommymorris]

Pulled a hydrometer reading on my golden ale fermented with verdant IPA, ester bomb! For just a sample its pretty tasty

It is just me, but any description that includes "bomb" is not something that sounds appealing. Fruit bomb, peach bomb, ester bomb, hop bomb, etc.

My goal is balance, with all flavors equally contributing to the taste experience, without any bombs going off!

i honestly dont know why people homebrew if they stick exclusively to styles that are extremely available commercially for an affordable price. if i only wanted pale euro lagers, i would probably just buy them.

i would guess the vast majority of people who got into homebrewing did it because they do want a "bomb" of flavour, and were inspired by a beer that was like a bomb in their mouth. i was.

There is a good reason why we choose to make:

Euro Lagers (Festbier / Helles / Pilsner / Vienna Lager)
Imperial Stouts
Barleywines

The issue is freshness. It is very difficult (if not impossible) to purchase a keg of (insert favorite Euro beer here) and have it brewery fresh. Most kegs purchased have only 30 days left on their 12 month shelf life. The flavor has been gone for nearly 6 months.

Light lagers age very poorly, as we all know. By brewing the above, we get the beer we like, and it is brewery fresh!

And, no bombs, please!

BTW...it is even a challenge to get a fresh keg of domestic beer.

and I am sure it’s fun to make!