[lupulus]

I believe my weakest link in my battle with O2 is the sparge. I have for years completely drained the MLT and then added sparge liquor below the grain bed. I believe that exposure, though brief, is probably not the best approach.

I have a brewday upcoming that doesn’t rely on a particularly high gravity.  The grain bill will be small enough that I think I can do No Sparge and still produce a descent representation of the beer. I have some sugar in the recipe so I can add a bit more if my OG suffers too much.

How do you guys address the sparge in your Low O2 brewdays?

I do no-sparge.
Maybe you can underlet the sparge, recirculate it a bit to get clear wort, then send it to the brew kettle.
If you post your system and question in the LODO forum, you'll get a few ideas to choose from.

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[BrewBama]

Maybe you can underlet the sparge, recirculate it a bit to get clear wort, then send it to the brew kettle.

This is what I do now.  I may just stick with that.

If you post your system and question in the LODO forum, you'll get a few ideas to choose from.

No thx. Been there done that. Got the “go find the answer yourself we’re not going to spoon feed you” and the old “FU no one asked you to come here” from the grand poobah himself. Then my acct was cxl. I’m good right where I am. Thx.

[lupulus]

I will do my best to help you when I can.

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[lupulus]

Brewbama
The problem is the contradiction.
Of the BJCP commercial examples the below have sulfur when drank at the source:
Augustiner Lagerbier Hell, Hacker-Pschorr Münchner Gold
Schönramer Hell

You can't have a perfect Augustiner score 30 because it has sulfur dioxide.

Yes the new BJCP guidelines incorporated sulfur as a general comment.
It has always been there for European Beer Star.

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I specifically remember writing a comment that the low sulfur aroma leant authenticity to a European Lager on a scoresheet in a homebrew competition 20 years ago. 
So, I'm a judge that acknowledges that.

Thanks so much!
80% of the Munich beer drinkers drink Augustiner Helles, so like it or not, it defines the style.
It's well attenuated at 1.006-1.007, pseudo-decocted, endosperm mash.
Has low sulfur, and a sweetness mid palate, but finishes very dry and clean, almost forcing you to take another sip.
Schönram follows a very similar blueprint with 86-87% AA.
Oddly, Augustiner is fermented under pressure and Schönram is open fermented, so both processes can achieve a great result.

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[BrewBama]

I will do my best to help you when I can.

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I can appreciate that. Thank you.

I have a question about ascorbic acid in the mash. I already use .5 tsp hydrated BtB as a chelator. I add it to the strike liquor prior to underletting the mash. As stated earlier I am risk obverse to using sulfur compounds in my beer at all.

However, I understand 3-5 grams AA can be used as a weak acid to negligibly affect mash pH but serves as an effective antioxidant.  …but that it must be used in the presence of SO4 to eliminate the resulting hydrogen peroxide.

Does the mash contain enough sulfur for the AA to be effective?

IOW, Is there any data to support AA will work as an effective antioxidant in the mash — in conjunction with BtB — without adding sulfur compounds outside what is already present?

[lupulus]

I will do my best to help you when I can.

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I can appreciate that. Thank you.

I have a question about ascorbic acid in the mash. I already use .5 tsp hydrated BtB as a chelator. I add it to the strike liquor prior to underletting the mash. As stated earlier I am risk obverse to using sulfur compounds in my beer at all.

However, I understand 3-5 grams AA can be used as a weak acid to negligibly affect mash pH but serves as an effective antioxidant.  …but that it must be used in the presence of SO4 to eliminate the resulting hydrogen peroxide.

Does the mash contain enough sulfur for the AA to be effective?

IOW, Is there any data to support AA will work as an effective antioxidant in the mash — in conjunction with BtB — without adding sulfur compounds outside what is already present?

The best you can do is deoxygenate the mash water, use a mash cap and not splash.

There's no good data about the effectiveness of AA as a mash antioxidant, but the prooxidant effect, if it were to happen, is mediated by Fe or Cu, which you are chelating, so I don't think the prooxidant effect happens in the mash.

AA works independently of sulfites.

Sulfites complement the antioxidant effect of AA, but sulfites are faster.

But...
AA inhibits beta amylase. I don't know at what concentration, do but track your attenuation when using AA.

I use only sufites.

Cheers!





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[Cliffs]

I for the life of me cant understand why anyone would like the taste of sulfur in something you are drinking. To each their own I suppose, but the taste and smell of sulfur is just gross to me, and its a reason I dont enjoy quitye a few lagers, including many of the "great ones"

Just a hypothetical...
Would it be douchy to go to:

The West coast IPA thread to state how gross high bitterness is

The Saison thread to state how gross phenols are

The Imperial stout thread to state how undrinkable these high FG are

The Lambic thread to state how gross and upsetting to your stomach the acidity is

The hazies thread to state how gross cloudy beers are

The AHA Forum to state how gross most beers are and how much better wine is

Asking for a friend.

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really didnt mean to offend. And yes, I think its ok to discuss things about styles that you either 1)dont like, and 2) dont understand. This is a beer brewing forum, its the place to talk about stuff like that.
 I like Lagers, it's just that the sulfur that accompanies them is distracting to me. That's my take on them as a brewer and drinker.

[lupulus]

First, thanks for reaching out.
Much appreciated!
I freely admit that I was ticked by:

"...for the life of me cant understand why anyone would like the taste of sulfur..."
and
 "great ones" in quotes

But... It happens to all of us.
So, not worries.
All is good from my end.
Have a great day

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[Cliffs]

First, thanks for reaching out.
Much appreciated!
I freely admit that I was ticked by:

"...for the life of me cant understand why anyone would like the taste of sulfur..."
and
 "great ones" in quotes

But... It happens to all of us.
So, not worries.
All is good from my end.
Have a great day

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I should have worded it better. Yeah, I just HATE sulfur. The quotes around the great ones wasnt meant to be sarcastic. So many lagers have great, nuanced malt flavor, but for my taste buds, the sulfur is just very distracting.

[MDL]

Funny story about sulfur and German lagers:

My sister attended a well known brewing school in Germany. At the graduation we were drinking some very fresh German lagers with a group of professors and other German brewing colleagues. They asked me what I thought of the particular beer I was drinking. I made the comment that it was quite good except for the sulfur note which I didn’t enjoy. After a long awkward moment of piercing stares from the group one of them said, “That’s fresh beer!” I must have shrugged my shoulders or something which elicited a very firm response of, “Stupid American!”

I didn’t get it then but by the end of that trip around Germany drinking many, many liters of German lager I had an epiphany. Now I get IT:)

[BrewBama]

I misspoke (I think) above: misusing SO4 for SO2. Based on past posts as evidence, I tend to get these mixed up.

Does an all barley mash contain SO2?

[RC]

I'm in the pro-sulfur column for pale lagers. But the identify identity of the sulfur molecule is very important. It can't be H2S sulfur, i.e. rotten egg. To my palate, this is awful at any level. DMS and DMSO are also awful at any level. But SO2 sulfur (matchstick) is a nice nuance, and I think this is the agreeable type of sulfur we are talking about in those German lagers (I might be wrong though). One of the reasons I love White Labs Mexican lager strain so much is because it leaves behind just a tick of SO2.

Hopefully nobody goes apoplectic when I say that I also don't mind a touch of skunk sulfur. In fact, sometimes I put my pale lagers in direct sunlight with the intention of creating a little skunkiness (hey don't judge me!).

A pale German lager without a tick--just a tick!--of sulfur is, to my palate, bland and boring. But I can totally understand why sulfur of any kind is objectionable to many palates.

[MDL]

Yes! Sulfur dioxide(SO2)!

[hopfenundmalz]

First, thanks for reaching out.
Much appreciated!
I freely admit that I was ticked by:

"...for the life of me cant understand why anyone would like the taste of sulfur..."
and
 "great ones" in quotes

But... It happens to all of us.
So, not worries.
All is good from my end.
Have a great day

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I should have worded it better. Yeah, I just HATE sulfur. The quotes around the great ones wasnt meant to be sarcastic. So many lagers have great, nuanced malt flavor, but for my taste buds, the sulfur is just very distracting.

I have to ask an honest question. Do you eat cabbage  or broccoli?  Those can be a little stinky.

From a web search-
"Other cruciferous veggies: arugula, bok choy, broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, collard greens, horseradish, kale, mustard greens, radishes, turnip greens, and watercress."

[lupulus]

I misspoke (I think) above: misusing SO4 for SO2. Based on past posts as evidence, I tend to get these mixed up.

Does an all barley mash contain SO2?

No

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